Has he offered to make dinner for you? Suggested cheap dates like nature hikes, free museum nights, etc.? Ten times without treating you once does seem pretty excessive. I would start to feel bad after like the second or third date.
As I've written before, I believe the guy should pay on the first several dates. I know. I'm old-fashioned. You can do the whole "reach for your purse" dance, but you aren't getting into your wallet. If you want to buy me a drink (or a cupcake) at some point during our date, I am not opposed. But for the most part, I'm paying. After the fourth or fifth or sixth date, maybe we can negotiate.
I know many disagree with this. It's not a gender equality thing-- it's common courtesy. I'm very pro-feminist, but this is the sort of issue where my Southern upbringing kicks in. If he's asking you out, he should pay. If she asks you out, you should still pay. (It's courteous, and will hopefully earn you brownie points.) If the issue starts a fight, then go dutch. It's not worth fighting over. But, honestly, I have never been out with a woman who insisted on paying on the first date. It's never been an issue.
At the very least, he should plan cheap dates. That way, if you want to contribute--or, in this case, if he expects you to contribute--he isn't breaking your bank account. I understand being broke and/or on fun-employment, but there are plenty of cheap or free activities he could be planning for dates. At this point, it just seems like he's being thoughtless. Were it me, I would be going without meals in order to at least pay for you occasionally. Romance is the only sustenance I require. (Well, that and cheeseburgers.)
Ask him to plan the next date. Let him know you're a cheap date, and that it doesn't have to be something extravagant. Try for a date under, say, $25. Then don't reach for your pocketbook at the end of the evening. If he insists that you contribute, I would take it as a sign that he isn't worth keeping. It's the sort of thing that makes me question his generosity. Is he going to be the type of guy who doesn't get you anything (or even make you anything) for Christmas and your birthday? I'm getting a thoughtless vibe here. Has he at least acknowledged that he wants to pay for you? It sounds like it's just assumed that you're going to split the bill. You're ten dates in and this is bothering you. Doesn't bode well for the future.
As I've written before, I believe the guy should pay on the first several dates. I know. I'm old-fashioned. You can do the whole "reach for your purse" dance, but you aren't getting into your wallet. If you want to buy me a drink (or a cupcake) at some point during our date, I am not opposed. But for the most part, I'm paying. After the fourth or fifth or sixth date, maybe we can negotiate.
I know many disagree with this. It's not a gender equality thing-- it's common courtesy. I'm very pro-feminist, but this is the sort of issue where my Southern upbringing kicks in. If he's asking you out, he should pay. If she asks you out, you should still pay. (It's courteous, and will hopefully earn you brownie points.) If the issue starts a fight, then go dutch. It's not worth fighting over. But, honestly, I have never been out with a woman who insisted on paying on the first date. It's never been an issue.
At the very least, he should plan cheap dates. That way, if you want to contribute--or, in this case, if he expects you to contribute--he isn't breaking your bank account. I understand being broke and/or on fun-employment, but there are plenty of cheap or free activities he could be planning for dates. At this point, it just seems like he's being thoughtless. Were it me, I would be going without meals in order to at least pay for you occasionally. Romance is the only sustenance I require. (Well, that and cheeseburgers.)
Ask him to plan the next date. Let him know you're a cheap date, and that it doesn't have to be something extravagant. Try for a date under, say, $25. Then don't reach for your pocketbook at the end of the evening. If he insists that you contribute, I would take it as a sign that he isn't worth keeping. It's the sort of thing that makes me question his generosity. Is he going to be the type of guy who doesn't get you anything (or even make you anything) for Christmas and your birthday? I'm getting a thoughtless vibe here. Has he at least acknowledged that he wants to pay for you? It sounds like it's just assumed that you're going to split the bill. You're ten dates in and this is bothering you. Doesn't bode well for the future.
Well, as respectful as I am of your opinion, Nick, I'm absolutely of the opinion that it should be half and half as default.
You complain he hasn't paid once, but he has! He's paid ten times for his own stuff! What you mean is, he hasn't let you freeload off him. Which, in my opinion, is not something to get pissy about. It's not like he's making YOU pay, which would actually be something to complain about.
Unless you hint that you'd rather he pay, then he probably won't. Gender politics is damn complicated, and most men are taught now that women like their independence which is, for the majority, true. That extends to things like dates. Unless you tell him you'd rather he paid, then he'll play it safe and assume you've got the same pride/independence/whatever that most modern women do, and split the bill.
Also, he might feel (as I do) that it's just fairer. You happen to have ladylumps, he happens to like ladylumps. Does that mean he should have to get broke trying to wine and dine you? What century are we living in? By all means, if he tries to make you pay for everything, then ditch his ass, but right now he's doing what's fair. Maybe when you get to know each other better, he's the kind of guy who'll surprise you with a big beautiful surprise, something that he knows you'll like. Maybe he goes on lots of dates and can't afford it every time. But you said he doesn't have a job now, so you KNOW he doesn't have much money. Why are you trying to squeeze your half of the date out of the poor guy? Tradition? History? Poor excuses, in my opinion. If you know, as you do by now, that he's going to pay for himself and you'll pay for you, then why are you with him? He clearly doesn't feel that his behaviour is unfair, and neither do I.
Can't have the vote AND have everything paid for you. That's just not what equal rights means! And in all honesty, if it were me in your position, seeing as he's the one without a job, I'd probably offer to pay for him. I don't think gender matters at all in dating. You should act like a decent person whoever it is, and for me, acting decent means not using the random chance of my female gender to score a free meal or two off some poor guy just because he feels pressured by society to do so. I'll pay my own way, thanks!
I do 100% believe that if you ORGANISE the date then you should offer to pay out of courtesy (because it was you taking them out). Again, regardless of gender. However, the recipient of the date should offer to pay their half, also out of courtesy. Whoever is the most courteous will win. :P We're not in the age of being kept women any more. It means that if you want to be treated as a person, over a delicate woman, you should probably pay your own way. Do the rest of us a favour and don't use your sex to get free stuff. :)
If you won't change your mind on this, then you're clearly not suited, and you need to find someone who will treat you like you want to be treated. It might not be the way that most women would want (equality in all it's aspects for me please!), but there are bound to be some guys out there who will still act this way towards women without it being meant as some oppressive, controlling thing. Nick is probably one of those good ones. :)
Ooh. Sorry for ranting. This is evidently a subject I feel strongly about. :)
Short version: You go out together, you split it. You invite him out, you pay, he should offer half. He invites you, he pays, you should offer half. Nice and equal. :D
No no no, a man asked YOU out he should pay. If it was you who extended the invitation, then I would think it was only fair that YOU were the one who paid. And yeah, this economy has people chapped but that doesn't mean you can't go anywhere fun. Have a picnic at a park, hang out at your place, play strip jinga. No excuses .
I can't speak for all women but I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with your comments. And to be honest, I think most women would. I wouldn't say I'm old fashioned but I think that whether or not the man pays shows a lot about his character. It's not a gender thing at all. As much as I expect men to be gentleman, I think women should act like ladies as well. Nobody is saying that men should pay for everything, open every door, or lay thier jacket on a puddle of water for us to walk over. Because like you said, it is 2010. However, I think that if you initiate a date, you should pay for it. I am of the opinion that a man should pay for the first couple of dates if he is pursuing you. After that, I would love to treat a man to dinner or something. It's not about money either, like Nick said, a date can be free or very inexpensive. If he does go on a lot of dates and can't afford that many, maybe he should think about that beforehand and be more selective about who he is asking out.
I also don't think that the person who asked the question said anything about wanting everything paid for her. And yes, you CAN have the vote and want a guy to pay on a date once in a while. The less you expect out of someone, the less you are going to get. So if you don't expect a guy to be a gentleman, he won't be. But don't expect to have a great relationship either.
I think it completely depends on the situation with the whole job issue. If they were dating before the unemployment, then I think it's not much to ask for her to pay for him. Quality time is more important than the money you spent being with the person. If I really liked someone who was in that situation, then yes I would pay for him. However, I think that if you are going to ask someone for a first date and you have no money, maybe you should re-think that. You never know how that person feels about you, and you don't know their financial situation either. For all you know, she could be swimming in bills she can't afford to pay.
I'm all about equal rights for anyone and anything, including between men and women. If a guy likes you, he will be totally fine with footing the bill for the first couple of dates. Not because he is pressured by society, but because he likes you and wants to show you. Ever heard of the book about the 5 languages of love? Read it. It can also apply to the dating scene.
It's one thing to be impressed with a guy for buying you dinner a few times, it's another issue completely if you expect a guy to pay for everything. THAT is taking advantage of someone. Nothing wrong with feminism at all, but how do you think a guy would feel if you insisted on paying your own way everytime if he wants to pay for you? It goes both ways
oops forgot to mention my reply is to Anonymouse not Nick. I completely agree with Nick on this one!
Jess, read over my last couple of paragraphs. I think you'll find we agree!
I don't think you read my comment all the way through (which is understandable - it was a long one!) but just take a look at those last couple of paragraphs. :) You'll see that we agree!
What I take issue with is the idea that women are automatically expecting the men to pay for the dates, regardless of the situation, but as you said, whoever is doing the pursuing, whoever is the one that has organised the date, it's only fair that they should pay. But we as decent ladies should offer to pay our half too. And then, as a decent man, he won't let us. :) And that's exactly the way it should be when the genders are reversed too.
(Although Nick, I'm afraid it is a gender inequality thing. It might come from a place of courtesy in your case, but it's an imbalance in the gender/dating rules, so that's what it is.)
*Praying for a lack of double/triple posts, as this is the third time I've tried to submit a comment, but the site is being glitchy.*
---
I agree with Nick completely. If the guy never pays for his date (especially after ten dates, and especially if he's the one who asked you out), then that's a serious red flag, or at least a yellow one. 99% of the time it means that he's either a very thoughtless person, or thinks that he's just so awesome that he doesn't even have to try. I feel somewhat passionately about this, as my last boyfriend never paid for me EVER, not even on the first couple of dates. He also never put any thought into my birthday or Valentine's (even when I bent over backwards to please him). He turned out to be a heinously thoughtless d-bag in just about every way.
And Anonymouse, I must also disagree with your comments. Equality doesn't necessarily mean that all common courtesy goes out the window. ("You can't have the vote" in this case? Um, yeah, we kind of can.) Why would you want to be treated like a man in a dating situation? What an awful thought.
I never said common courtesy goes out the window. In fact, I said exactly the opposite. I said that both sexes should be equally courteous to each other. Not both treat each other like crap, as you seem to be implying I think.
Sorry you misunderstood. I know it was a long comment, but still...
(And yes, I know we DO have the vote and some of us DO treat men like date-providing cash machines, but it doesn't mean we should, if that's the double standard way in which some of us behave! Oy vey...)
There's a chance this guy might not even think you're dating. When I go out with my guy friends, we always split the bill, and I wouldn't want them paying for me anyway. But if it's clear that you're in a relationship with him, meaning it's gone further than just going out to eat or the movies, then something's wrong. Even a broke guy would offer to pay for the first date, if he's the one asking. Otherwise, he wouldn't ask. I'm from the South, too, and men here always pay for the first date. That doesn't mean he has to pay for everything, but that's just how it is. It's like an unwritten rule.
I think the answer is simple. If it really bothers you, ask him why he doesn't offer to pay. Awkward maybe, but then you'll have your answer. You don't have to sit around guessing if it's because he's trying not to insult your new-age independent woman sensibilities or if it's because he's a cheapo asshole.
For the record, I am generally of the opinion that whoever did the asking ought to pay for both people on at least the first date, and this is regardless of whether the asker is a man or a woman. After the first date though, I assume that the dates were agreed upon together, and it makes sense that they would be split.
Also, why is everyone assuming that he asked her out in the first place? It could have been the other way around.
Also, YOU haven't paid for an entire date once either. Think about it.
i'm not from the south and i think men should pay during the first few weeks of a relationship or he really is not that into you.
I don't know why, but I've always been uncomfortable with the guy paying on the first date. Or second date, or third. It feels like I owe him something, and that I might be expected to pay this debt horizontally. Until I'm really comfortable with the guy (to the point where I'm not feeling any of that pressure), I like to pay for my own half of the date. I want to do the fun stuff with him because I choose to, not because I feel obligated to. I may have an overdeveloped sense of obligation, but otherwise, I can get awkward fast.
I agree with Nick. My boyfriend paid for lunch on our first date, and dinner and the price of our admission on our second date. I bought us coffees on the second date. Since then, he's paid for the majority of our outings, but I do pay for dinner, etc. as well once in awhile. I like this. It's a give and take, and it seems more natural than splitting things down the middle every time.
Oh the horror! He's acting like he has self-respect by NOT paying for everything! What WILL you do?
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