No way. You were smart to dump him. What he did was not okay. He got physically abusive with you because you looked at a note on his desk? Clearly that note was from another girl. You might have thought it was "play wrestling," but his intent was to physically keep you away from that note. The fact that he didn't want to talk about the incident for the next several days is also a sign that he had little or no remorse for what he did.
It is NEVER okay for a guy to get physically violent with you, and if that was his reaction to something minor, you were wise to get out. Clearly this guy has a dark side and something to hide. The fact that he was apologizing while he was hurting you is pretty scary and suggests that he has some serious issues to work through. There might be people who will say you shouldn't have been looking at the note. Don't listen to them. Even if you didn't, chances are another incident like this would have occurred, possibly with more serious consequences. His overreaction suggests that he was up to something. Good for you for realizing that he is bad news.
Thank you for this question. It is important for everyone to realize that even a small level of physical abuse is not okay. Some people might brush off such an incident. "Well, at least he didn't hit me" is never a good excuse. There are many types of physical abuse. He was hurting you and being physically intimidating. The fact that he hid behind the play wrestling thing is pretty psycho if you ask me. I fear for the next girl he dates. This guy is an abuser with serious issues. Also, he was physically keeping you away from something he didn't want you to see, which suggests to me that he was cheating on you. Again, kudos for getting out of this relationship. Now you know the warning signs to look for in the future. Abusive guys aren't just stereotypical meatheads in wife-beaters. Sadly, they come in all forms.
It is NEVER okay for a guy to get physically violent with you, and if that was his reaction to something minor, you were wise to get out. Clearly this guy has a dark side and something to hide. The fact that he was apologizing while he was hurting you is pretty scary and suggests that he has some serious issues to work through. There might be people who will say you shouldn't have been looking at the note. Don't listen to them. Even if you didn't, chances are another incident like this would have occurred, possibly with more serious consequences. His overreaction suggests that he was up to something. Good for you for realizing that he is bad news.
Thank you for this question. It is important for everyone to realize that even a small level of physical abuse is not okay. Some people might brush off such an incident. "Well, at least he didn't hit me" is never a good excuse. There are many types of physical abuse. He was hurting you and being physically intimidating. The fact that he hid behind the play wrestling thing is pretty psycho if you ask me. I fear for the next girl he dates. This guy is an abuser with serious issues. Also, he was physically keeping you away from something he didn't want you to see, which suggests to me that he was cheating on you. Again, kudos for getting out of this relationship. Now you know the warning signs to look for in the future. Abusive guys aren't just stereotypical meatheads in wife-beaters. Sadly, they come in all forms.
I don't know about this one. Seems like the asker should have backed off. The fact that he was apologising makes it seem like you were still trying to go for the note, and he clearly didn't want you to.
I have some very private letters in my room. It could have been something medical, something from an old flame, or something precious from a deceased relative or something, and if you back him into a corner where literally the only thing he can do is physically stop you, because you don't love or respect him enough to listen to him and stop yourself, then yeah, you probably should have broken up.
I'd like to know what else he was supposed to do in that situation? Without just letting her read it and getting angry afterwards. Clearly she wasn't listening to him, and he resorted to the only option left. If he had done nothing, she would have read it. He might not have been right to use a small amount of violence, but she wasn't right to ignore his privacy. It doesn't sound like there was much respect or love here in the first place.
agreed with this.
seriously, I find it disgusting when people excuse violent behavior like this.
I'm not justifying violence. At all. I said he was wrong, but that she didn't give him much choice, which sounds like a fairly accurate description of the situation. Neither person behaved well to the other, but I do think that abuse is too strong a word, and is used too much to describe this sort of one-off behaviour. Which completetly belittles it for people who are in genuine abusive situations, because if you use the same word "abuse" for someone who got hurt wrists from trying to read her partner's personal letters, and someone who has been hit every week for a year for not doing what they've been told in terms of washing the dishes or something like that, then our language has gone very wrong.
One of the things I can't stand about the internet is that people read way too much into what they think you're saying. Giving a potential reason for something is not the same as giving an excuse.
and plus he DID tell me it was about me, that him and his friend were talking aboutme.. and he said he just might have said something to hurt my feelings in this note.. and i say whats worse physically hurting me or hurting my feelings?.. but hes reaction was way to violent for him to be telling the truth.. he forgets i know him better than anyone
So invading someone's privacy warrants a violent reaction??
That's just wrong.
Yes, lets take this down to the very simplest form, and then get it wrong. No, that isn't what I said, and I'm a bit sick of people making out that I think violence is an appropriate reaction.
I was with a man who hit me when he was frustrated. I was stupid to stay with him, but I thought that with love I could change him into someone who showed his own love in an appropriate way. He was homeless for a while, with a very tense family situation. Whenever we got into debates about anything, and he struggled to express himself, I would end up with cuts and bruises. He pulled a knife on me, and strangled me at various points in the relationship. I didn't even have the courage to break up with him, I just left the country. I left everything behind and lived in South East Asia for a year because I was too afraid.
So no, I don't think violence is right. And I'm bloody sick of being accused of treating violence lightly here. But while I, and many other abused women didn't warrant anything for a level of abuse, this girl tried to abuse his privacy, while they were already play-fighting, to which he resorted to the albeit stupid, but only option left to him, and yet she still thinks he's the only one that should apologise. They clearly shouldn't be together, but he's not the only one in the wrong, and from the question it sounds like he made a stupid one-off mistake, as opposed to being mentally and physically manipulative and controlling.
For real?!?!
I’m having a hard time with, “He might not have been right to use a small amount of violence, but…” BUT NOTHING! Any amount of violence is too much. End of story.
You ask what else he was supposed to do in that situation. Try…, “Please, don’t touch that.” In a voice that commands respect for your privacy. If she failed yield his request, he would have had to decide if it was a deal breaker, but he never gave her that option.
“Small amount of violence” as you put it, only escalates to more violence. Sad…, very sad, you don’t know or see that.
Great advice, Nick....
100% behind this one!!!
Yes, you're right. A respectful request to not read the note would have been appropriate. The overreacting is a huge red flag and foreshadowing something more serious.
Once again, a reason is not an excuse. I'm not saying "He might not have been right to use a small amount of violence, but she clearly had it coming", I'm saying "He was wrong in her actions, and similarly she was also wrong in hers".
I'm saying there's a clear cause of the whole situation, and the cause is her disrespecting him. I'M NOT SAYING HE WAS RIGHT TO DO SO. I'm not excusing his behaviour, but providing a reason for it. Don't people get taught grammar and semantics in school these days?
And I have no doubt whatsoever that he asked her not to read it. That's what most of us would do. If someone persists, though, what do you do then?
Presposterous. This wasn't a situation where there is a "last resort", like a life (even a pet's) being at stake. It is a matter of reading a note. There is NO excuse to resort to such use of force in a minute invasion of privacy- especially sine she is his girlfriend.
and plus he DID tell me it was about me, that him and his friend were talking aboutme.. and he said he just might have said something to hurt my feelings in this note.. and i say whats worse physically hurting me or hurting my feelings?.. but hes reaction was way to violent for him to be telling the truth.. he forgets i know him better than anyone
You know, that really just makes the situation even creepier. Not only does he continue to hurt you as he apologizes for doing so, but he's writing little notes about you back and forth to his friend? And he's old enough to have a girlfriend? Is he a neo-Luddite?
Hmm, tough one.
Sounds to me like she was playfighting then she reached for a note he did not want her to see. Obviously he should never lay a hand on her in a purposefully violent way, but honestly, if anyone reading this situation thinks about how they would react in the exact same situation, would you have done differently?
He has a private document. Who knows what it is? He claims it is about you, fine, it's about you, still that gives you no entitlement to see it. I have private documents a-plenty that no-one gets to see unless they are my wife. When my fiance was just my girlfriend would I let her see my bank statements, health records, or even transcripts of a private conversation between myself and my friend? No. If I was already play fighting with her and goofing off and she makes a grab for something I don't want her looking at I would probably grab her without thinking about it. They were already in a physical situation where they were playing around.
Plus, the guy might just not have realized his own strength in comparison to her threshold for force. I have accidentally squeezed too hard when stopping my fiance from doing something. I am a large and strong man who played a lot of football and rugby, most of the time I have great control of the force I use but sometimes I can squeeze a bit hard. I don't think that is a sign of a man who will beat a women, it's a man making a mistake and not realizing how hard he is holding her.
She also doesn't mention if she said 'that's okay' or something along those lines when he apologized, I would never bring it up again if I was told that it was alright or if I was told to forget about it. I assume she responded in a way that stopped further conversation otherwise they would have discussed it right there and then. The first time I squeezed my fiance too hard we immediately talked about it at the time and realized that I am a strong man and can sometimes use too much force without meaning to, even when just hugging her. Sometimes I shake peoples hands way too hard. It's not intentional in the least and before anyone psychoanalyzes this as me being a naturally violent person subconsciously or something ask yourself if you've ever applied too much force when using a pencil and broken it, or lost track of what you were doing and accidentally broke something. We all have, and we all will. There. Problem discussed and averted.
I am sorry he hurt you. But you say he apologized at the time but didn't apologize again so I assume you said something that allowed him to drop the subject. That's what men like to do. It also sounds like even after he made it obvious that he didn't want you reading it that you kept trying to. If he had to hold himself back and just say "Stop trying to read my stuff" then shouldn't he be afforded the same respect and have been asked what the note was and if he would show her? I am sorry to be the bad guy, I try to avoid it, but this guy just stops you from seeing a private document and accidentally holds you too tight and apologizes for his actions, and he is the worst man alive?
In the end, she did something she wasn't supposed to do. He accidentally did something he wasn't supposed to do is response and immediately apologized. She should have respected his personal items and he should have respected her personal space. Let's not make the guy out to be this horrible man who will end up beating women.
I just don't know.
I would never respond violently to someone trying to read something I didn't want them to. I can't ever imagine my boyfriend doing that. And my boyfriend apologised like mad one time that he accidentally stepped on my pinkie toe, so I have a hard time believing that a guy would just drop it if his girlfriend was obviously physically hurt but said something like "that's ok". There seems to be a big difference between you and the guy in question!! You and your fiance talked about it right away when you accidentally hugged her too hard (that happens!). To me, that seems like you didn't just let it go, or apologise and keep hugging her too hard. She did say "I told him and he kept apologizing while it was happening." So WHILE it was happening, he knew he was using too much force, and hurting her. That doesn't sound to me like someone just instinctively trying to protect their privacy, it sounds painful and insensitive. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, but in this case, my gut feeling is that this guy isn't the nice guy who doesn't know his own strength, he's got the potential to be a danger.
In the end, we don't have enough information. If he kept doing it I definitely agree with you that the behaviour is wrong. If he kept holding on as she was reaching for the note but relaxed his grip so he wouldn't hurt her but continued to apologize...debatable. I just think that the man shouldn't be judged so harshly. I definitely agree they should not be together, there seems to be a lack of understanding and trust on both ends.
I just don't think the guy deserves to be labeled as an abuser or possible cheater. People mess up, she says he was perfect before this, this very easily could have been a crazy mistake. It is just as much on the girlfriend to have the conversation, as a note to all women reading this. Some men can get very scared of talking things over, you might have to start these conversations yourself. We are in the year 2011, please take the reins sometimes.
But yes. For clarification, hurting women is bad. Very bad. As a police officer it is one of the worst situations to ever walk into. But having been around these situations many times in the past I know what is and isn't abuser behaviour, this seems to me to just be a young man who forgot himself and boundaries. Abusers are always controlling, and quick to anger. If he had always been 'perfect' before this he doesn't fit the bill.
"Abusers are always controlling, and quick to anger. If he had always been 'perfect' before this he doesn't fit the bill."
The man who abused and controlled me for nearly 2 years of my life was 'perfect' for the first year and a half of our relationship. He did everything I could ask for and more. Then one day, he "playfully" restrained me when I reached for his notebook from a class we took together. It hurt. He left bruises. It escalated. Turns out he'd been cheating and there were notes from another girl in there. Don't even TRY to continue excusing this behaviour. It's how abuse starts out.
All he had to do is say "Please don't read that. It's private." If she still read it, he would be justified in getting upset. But not in hurting her.
The part that really concerns me is the play wrestling that turned into real violence. Clearly he was hiding behind the play fighting as a way to get what he wanted. When the play fighting didn't work, he actually got rough. It's not like they were play fighting and she bumped her head accidentally or something.
Also, for the record, I completely agree that we don't know enough to label him as an abuser. This could have been a one-time thing that he regrets. That said, he was abusive, and she is fully within her rights to leave him.
Oh, completely agreed. I said above that they definitely should not be together. I just feel that there is a trend of "my boyfriend touched me in a somewhat negative way, he is a monster and deserves the chair!" and then she punches him, slaps him, jumps on him, etc. I hate tossing double standards out there but it's one I see every day. There are many times I get called to apartments or homes and it's a silly situation like this, sure his behaviour is wrong but mistakes are made sometimes. If she wants to leave him she is well in the realm of right. I was addressing the incredibly upset reactions of other commenters and just pointing out that there are other options besides him being a monster.
But, not that my ranting is over, good on the women asking the question. If something doesn't feel right, get out.
(that's supposed to say 'now that my ranting is over' don't worry, I am done.)
You're all too quick to jump to conclusions when she was being stupid. They were already play wrestling. Someone's bound to get accidently hurt anyways, and it could have just been an accident and not have been associated with the note. If it was, so what. You should have asked if you could read it and he should have not hit you. You're BOTH at fault. BOTH OF YOU.
All it really takes is one little mistake to be labeled and abuser. But any amount of force that leaves bruises is not acceptable, unless your partner is a hemophiliac. You can protect yourself and your property if you want, but don't be stupid about it.
Perhaps it's because I was in a physically abusive relationship for just over a year, but I just don't see this as abuse. A violent action, yes, but abuse is something that I believe is considerably more than this.
I know violence is wrong, and so the last thing I want to do is to say "oh, but it wasn't as bad as x, y or z, so it's fine". Violence is wrong, and he was wrong to hurt her. But I also think that if the situation were reversed, in terms of sex and gender, then we'd probably all be thinking how he would have no right to look through her personal writing, and how dare he even try.
I'm not saying he was right, but she certainly shouldn't be abusing his privacy either. Neither person is right in this case. He shouldn't have gone to such extremes, but then she didn't leave him much choice, and if the situation were reversed and it came down to her protecting something of hers, I'm sure she would have done what she could, especially considering how private it clearly was.
I'm just not behind people throwing labels around like "violent relationship" and "abusive partner" when there's a huge difference between something like this, and being deliberately physically hurt solely to keep you in check, because they view you as property or something to be controlled. It's still not good behaviour though, which is why I don't think they should be together, but I don't think people should be getting so up in arms about it when it was a one-off incident that she herself provoked in the first place.
Kudos Nick for your answer to this question. And to whoever said it's warranted to hurt her if she didn't listen...i feel sorry for your girlfriend or boyfriend. It goes both ways for men and women, physical abuse is not acceptable, period! If you have personal problems or issues and you can't share it with your partner then don't be in a relationship. Relationship is partnership. You compliment each other. Now if it's something that you're sworn to secrecy such as work related or your friend's secret then that is an acceptable instances for privacy.
P.S. We always have a choice!!! You can scream, you can cuss, and tell her to leave the house if you want to...but nothing like this. Just because you didn't have bruises doesn't mean it's not physical abuse. I came from a family whom my foster mom beat me for such a petty mistake such as (i
forgot to take out the bottled soda from the fridge). So i apologize if i don't sympathize to people that said this situation is warranted or this is an overreaction.
no, we werent ALREADY play wrestling, he was trying to get the note from me, and i mistook it for playfull.. but after i said stop, and he wouldnt stop, i realized it was different.. and now whats worse is hes begging me for my forgiveness.. im in no way ready to forgive him, let alone speak to him.. ive asked him not to speak to me, but he persists, because he "doesnt know what hes going to do without me"...and its just getting way too depressing for me =(
Why didn't you give it back to him? I'm genuinely curious about this, because at no point have you admitted any kind of remorse about actively invading his privacy.
I understand that he upset you, and his actions were not right by any definition. You keep writing about what he did, and how he never stopped etc. But what did he say? Did he ask you to not read it? Did he ask for it back? Did he say it was private? I feel like you have a bit of a 'victim' mentality where you shouldn't. If you don't like how he handled himself then tell him, not talking to someone is cowardly and allows nothing to be resolved. Deal with the issue with your ex, if you want to stay apart then tell him and make it final. But please don't make him out to be the devil and make yourself out to be faultless. You both messed up in big ways, and in my opinion he has every reason to no longer want to be with you just as much as you have every reason to no longer be with him. Seems to just be dysfunctional to me.
Sort it out. Stop complaining to a faceless mob and deal with it, there's lot's of advice from a whole lot of random people in the discussion. Use the advice or don't, but deal with it.
Even if she did invade his privacy, his reaction is completely unwarranted. He went too far. She told him to stop hurting her, and he didn't. All over her reading a note? I can understand if he got upset, but he loses all sympathy once he started physically hurting her.
I don't think anyone has sympathy for him. But, likewise, she's certainly not blameless either.
You are right for not having contact with him.
he "doesnt know what hes going to do without me"...., That is just a deparate plea, don't give in. Stay stronge & ignore those who think his was right to touch you. No means no...
okay you have a point, but all i wanted, was to see it.. 'if you have nothing to hide, you hide nothing'...right?.. i hide nothing from him, and he claimed to hide nothing from me...and i told him, id compromise, he could tell me what was on it, and id let go.. and i wasnt TRYING to open it, until i realized how important it was for him to not let me see it......and yes i have told him how i feel... ive told him everything, he doesnt care... and i did give up, i gave him an ultimatum in order to see the note, he chose to let me leave.. so i handed it over and left in tears.
Let me see if I've got this straight: chick attacks dude's privacy, dude retaliates with minimal force. Dude apologizes immediately and discontinues force as soon as his privacy stops being threatened. Things are awkward, followed by four days of silence during which the girl never acknowledges she was wrong in the first place or apologizes for attacking him.
If someone tries punching me, I deflect their fist and leave a bruise on their wrist and I immediately apologize for hurting them, who is at fault?
Your wrong here. He continued restraining her while apologizing... He did NOT DISCONTINUE force and it was not minimal. I can see him now on top of her holding her down by the wrists repeating I'm sorry... I'm sorry... but not stopping.. Just as Nick said... PSYCHO! I quote verbatim "I told him and he kept apologizing while it was happening." Just sayin'
We don't know what was in that letter. If he was only holding her wrists as she was still trying to get the letter, he's done nothing wrong. The content of what was written is unknown. Even if his excuse was not a lie, something negative written about her might have hurt her more than squeezing her wrists, he might have realized that, too.
why would any good man say something that would hurt his girl THAT much? he obviously didnt love her as much, if he was saying or doing something he KNOWS would hurt her.