You raise some good points. However, I think it goes deeper than your man's porn viewing habits.
Unless he's Charlie Sheen, most guys don't want to date porn stars. In fact, if given the chance to sleep with a Jenna Haze or a Sasha Grey, most men would run the other way. I have a theory that most men are secretly terrified of porn stars. In my work outside of GuySpeak, I've attended many comic book conventions and trade shows which often feature porn stars as guests. While there are occasional creeps who hover around the porn star booths, most of the geeks at the con steer clear. My theory is that the sudden realization that a porn star is a real person freaks guys out. Porn stars are like cartoon characters-- they aren't real women who we want to date. (Though I'm sure they're all nice people.)
No, I think there are two larger issues to blame here: the media's absurd standard of female beauty and your own self-confidence. It is pointless to see porn stars as a threat to your relationship, just like it's pointless to compare yourself to Katy Perry or Gwyneth SkinandBonesPaltrow. We're bombarded with images of stick-thin women and schlubby, average-looking dudes. The fact that celebrities with normal body proportions (like, say, Christina Hendricks or the singer Adele) are a rarity these days is more than a little alarming.
Try watching porn with him. Take the stigma off by confronting it head-on. (No pun intended.) Soon you will see that it can be a healthy part of your relationship and not something to feel intimidated by. If he constantly compares you to porn stars, that's a problem. If he's addicted to porn to the point where it affects your sex life, that's also a problem. But comparing yourself to porn stars will only drive you crazy. There is always going to be porn, and men will always look at it. It can healthy in a relationship as long as it isn't used as a substitute for actual sex and human connection. It is just a fantasy. Porn is ridiculous. Any guy who lets it affect how he treats and views women in his day-to-day life has issues.
Finally, any man who complains about a woman having body issues is a straight-up douchenozzle trollface scum monster. (Also, they're rarely a prize physically.) Your guy should be supportive and boost your confidence. Of course, confidence has to ultimately come from within, but guys who are annoyed by female body issues are to be avoided at all costs.
Unless he's Charlie Sheen, most guys don't want to date porn stars. In fact, if given the chance to sleep with a Jenna Haze or a Sasha Grey, most men would run the other way. I have a theory that most men are secretly terrified of porn stars. In my work outside of GuySpeak, I've attended many comic book conventions and trade shows which often feature porn stars as guests. While there are occasional creeps who hover around the porn star booths, most of the geeks at the con steer clear. My theory is that the sudden realization that a porn star is a real person freaks guys out. Porn stars are like cartoon characters-- they aren't real women who we want to date. (Though I'm sure they're all nice people.)
No, I think there are two larger issues to blame here: the media's absurd standard of female beauty and your own self-confidence. It is pointless to see porn stars as a threat to your relationship, just like it's pointless to compare yourself to Katy Perry or Gwyneth SkinandBonesPaltrow. We're bombarded with images of stick-thin women and schlubby, average-looking dudes. The fact that celebrities with normal body proportions (like, say, Christina Hendricks or the singer Adele) are a rarity these days is more than a little alarming.
Try watching porn with him. Take the stigma off by confronting it head-on. (No pun intended.) Soon you will see that it can be a healthy part of your relationship and not something to feel intimidated by. If he constantly compares you to porn stars, that's a problem. If he's addicted to porn to the point where it affects your sex life, that's also a problem. But comparing yourself to porn stars will only drive you crazy. There is always going to be porn, and men will always look at it. It can healthy in a relationship as long as it isn't used as a substitute for actual sex and human connection. It is just a fantasy. Porn is ridiculous. Any guy who lets it affect how he treats and views women in his day-to-day life has issues.
Finally, any man who complains about a woman having body issues is a straight-up douchenozzle trollface scum monster. (Also, they're rarely a prize physically.) Your guy should be supportive and boost your confidence. Of course, confidence has to ultimately come from within, but guys who are annoyed by female body issues are to be avoided at all costs.
Christina Hendricks is you counter to stick thin? So the opposite of "make a girl anorexic" thin is gigantic boobs?
Nice.
So ladies, if you're not super thin I hope you got some huge titties.
i think the point he's making is that the opposite of "destroying your body to conform to other people's standards of beauty" is "accept and flaunt what you have and people will love you"
No, not at all. I use Christina Hendricks as an example of someone in the media who has realistic body proportions and who is often labeled "fat" or "curvy," which is code for fat, by the media. You'll notice I also mentioned Adele as an example of someone in the media who isn't stick thin.
I'm sorry Nick. I know what you are trying to say and maybe Christina is a bad example, but it is an example I've seen used in many women's mags and it bothers me. I often see her body shape glorified by 'journalists' saying that this shape is healthy and "normal". She has an awesome body but I don't think it is realistically proportioned. Sometimes I find myself thinking.."Is this what I am meant to look like now, because its what the average, normal girl looks like? Am I not normal because I don't have this shape?" Well then I have my work cut out for me! As someone who is completely flat chested and has to work to get an ass, I find Christina's body shape completely unrealistically unattainable. What is so different then, from wanting to be "stick thin" than wanting to have the perfect hourglass figure like Christinas? Is there not the same pressure? If you aren't skinny, you should have curves; if you're too curvy you're fat; if you're too skinny you're anorexic. Who can keep up!!
Exactly.
Well, that's the problem with using examples from the media. Who is 'natural'? Kate Winslet I suppose? But the harsh fact is, most females don't get anywhere in the celebrity world without some sort of physical attribute they can 'trump' themselves on. Especially actresses.
So it's tough to find an example of a 'normal-normal' woman. And say, if Nick had named someone he had known, eg, a hypothetical friend, "Lily" -- we won't know what he's talking about either, because we don't know her!
Yeah, it's very hard to point to any woman in the public arena with so-called normal features. For one thing, yes, all women are different. But if you look at the media, you're going to see a LOT of skinny women. I mean, there's an entire category of normal, healthy looking women who are labeled "plus-size" because they work in an industry (fashion) which treats women like bony clothing hangers.
Of course Christina Hendricks is not "average" by normal standards. This is part of the overall problem I'm addressing. When a woman who looks like Jessica Rabbit is one of the few examples of a woman in the media who is not a stick, we've got problems. And there's nothing wrong with being a stick! (Well, as long as you aren't anorexic.) It's just that extremely skinny is the norm for women, while men get a free pass to be average.
Miss Hendricks has implants... her proportions are not natural.
I have seen the odd porn every now and then and I certainly don't lust after the male porn actors or compare my boyfriend to them. And I am pretty sure I would never want to date one! I think Nick is right- the media standard for beauty has set the bar pretty high. And not just for women. Look at how groomed male celebrities are, you don't think men compare themselves aswell? Men certainly have body issues too! In my opinion though they react differently to them.
On another note I hate the way the media portrays the skinny girl in a negative light. Some people are naturally skinny just as some people are naturally big. Some people have to work hard for their body and some don't. There is no shame in wanting to be thin and fit if that is what you want and you do it healthily. It can be frustrating to read over and over again about celebs who are TOO skinny. Just as it enables eating disorders by showing 16 year old size 6 6ft 2 russian models, the media is enabling obesity by saying "you don't need to exercise because being curvy is more healthy". Well there is a far cry between curvy and overweight! It sends out mixed signals! Gwyneth has an awesome body! After two children? She's slender and fit, but she isn't boney! That girl has some serious ab, ass and calve muscles. Christina Hendrix is hardly normally proportioned. She is the epitomy of curvy, big boobs, tiny waist, round ass. That 1920's figure doesn't come without work and good genetics. Just because Adele has a little weight on her she is hardly the average body type. Women come in all different shapes, some are skinny naturally some are toned and muscular, some are curvy, some big boned, and some just overweight.
At the end of the end of the day, if you don't like your body, (aside from having some kind of medical condition that prevents you from physical activity) what is stopping you from going out there and changing it? Sure its the pain in the ass and hard work, but if you really want something then what's stopping you? If there is one thing I have noticed and admired about men, is that they take action if they dislike the way they look. There don't sit around a moan about it for ages or make excuses for their flabby bits, they get out there like a trained army commando and DO it. Maybe thats why they complain about women who have body issues? Because we don't do anything to change them.
I'm sorry but that's such bullshit. I've known plenty of chubby guys who seem to have body issues and do nothing about it (which is great because I love chubby guys). The type who goes all military-commando-diet is annoying as hell anyway.
Oops I accidently voted for you, rather than against you. I don't think you can call my personal experience "bullshit" because it is a personal experience. FACT. Maybe you know alot of "chubby" men who have body issues and don't do anything about it (as you say) but l DO know plenty of guys who go to the gym to train and get fit, because they want to work on their body and lead an active lifestyle. How is that bullshit? I know plenty of women who do too. I also feel that more of my female friends tend to be more vocal about their physical flaws than my male friends. Some of my female friends will happily complain for thirty minutes about not fitting into their jeans or little black dress while gorbing on a cheesburger and then suggesting going for quick full fat latte at Starbucks! I myself included! I was referring to the men in my family and my boyfriend who love fitness and sport, many of whom play rugby and football. I don't think there is anything wrong or annoying with that! I don't think there is anything wrong with being "chubby.. have body issues and do nothing about it" As long as you're happy, you're happy. To each their own.
The way you worded it was as if all men will start radical rush diets and work their ass off to get skinny. I was calling bullshit because NOT all men do that.
You don't even know how much I love you calling Adele "normal". That just made my day =)
I VERY unfortunately now know what the man I care about loves to look at and I don't feel confident at all ever since. I don't have it in me to be that fantasy whore girl and I definitely don't think he sees me that way because I get treated like the good girl. It sucks when a guy finds a ton of other women sexy when they look nothing like me. I very much understand what this writer is feeling. Porn sucks when you're dating someone lol.
Sorry, Adele isn't normal, she is overweight. Actually, scrub that, maybe fat is normal these days. But it shouldn't be, just as much as super skinny shouldn't be.
I like Star Trek. But if my man showed up one day looking like a Klingon, I guarantee you it would mean lady-boner death.
Like Nick said, porn is a cartoon. If your guy liked Looney Tunes, would you feel bad for not being a rabbit?
Never, ever feel bad that you aren't a fictional construct. The characters in porn are basically just ideas (it's not like they're fleshed out enough to be people)- maybe he likes the idea of fantasy whores, but only because they live in a fictional world without social norms, std's, or broken hearts. I admit that sometimes I fantasize about things that I'd find awful if they happened in real life- but as long as they happen in my head, I have full control of them and the world in which they happen. But a fantasy can never be a partner.
Porn stars play roles that have nothing to do with life- not yours, not his, not anyone's. What happens in porn does not happen in reality, and those people don't exist. If he's any kind of a human being, your guy understands that. And if he's with you, it means he likes you for you, and his fantasies are irrelevant.
Don't compare yourself to fictional whores. Come on, you're better than that.
It's not about being stick-thin, or super curvy. It's about being healthy and happy and confident in your own skin. I dislike all the "anti-skinny" and "anti-fat" rhetoric...the media plays to both extremes, and it's completely ridiculous in my book.
/end rant
Agreed. And I'm not trying to be anti-skinny or anything. I agree that media plays to both extremes. It's just that for women, they play to the skinny camp far more. For instance, you don't see a lot of female equivalents of Seth Rogen or Jonah Hill. And I also don't see either of them getting the sort of flack for their appearance that female celebrities do. (And yes I realize Seth Rogen lost weight for Green Hornet, but you get my drift.)
But my overall point is that porn isn't the problem-- it's a drop in the ocean.
ohh S, so bitter and disillusioned :( maybe you need to dump his ass and get a man who does find you attractive, whatever your look is, there are gunna be TONES of men who dig it. I understand that you want to be lusted after but if guys see you as a 'good girl' that cant be anything but positive as thats what most guys (with more than 2 brains cells) are after in a girlfriend. Get your head space together, get an outfit that makes you feel fantastic then go strut, you'll turn some heads, guaranteed, guys can smell confidence a mile off and thats the biggest turn on, not porn star proportions.
Sure guys like porn, but they arent comparing you to the girls in it, that is SUCH a girl thing, comparing everything, I look like shit compared to her, her shoes are so much nicer than mine, mine are better than hers, her skin is better than mine, my boobs are better than hers, my child was toilet trained at 6 months, yours wasnt? how terrible, my house is better than hers but not as nice as that one, my husband earns more than yours but I have a rock hard ass, you get my drift? Its just what we do, but men DONT think that way, get yourself some porn, choose something made for women, and watch it together, you might surprise yourself and enjoy it :)
As for the men working out thing, I get that. Women do tend to sit around and complain about their bodies more than men, because we are more vocal in general. Most guys will have body issues and just not voice them. BUT in general, guys are more results driven, that's why the get out and do something. I'm a girl and I get sick of women complaining about their bodies and making excuses when most times its nothing that a bit of hard work will fix. So no wonder sometimes guys get sick of it too, its not because they watch porn.
Be happy with what you've got BUT if you complain about your body and your man gives you suggestions on how to fix it, he isnt agreeing, thats just men being men, they like to fix stuff...unhappy girlfriend, he thinks "I want to fix it". The second he does agrees that your body isnt good enough dump his douche-bag ass.
Well, I never once said he doesn't find me attractive. I know he does. I'm not ugly by any means. I'm the first to openly admit I have insecurities and a few trust issues leftover from a really really bad relationship in the past. I have no problem admitting it. I know for a fact he'll never cheat on me or throw me over for some skank, but controlling normal human emotions of minor jealousy and insecurities is not always possible, especially when you've been to hell and back. That would be in an ideal world, wish I lived there but I don't unfortunately.
I'm the person who sent in the question, and while I appreciate Nick taking the time to answer it, I wasn't talking about me or my situation with a boyfriend or how to feel okay with said boyfriend looking at it.
I was asking seriously about how men come to this "doublethink" idea. Literally--why do men look at porn knowing how it makes some women feel, and expect women who DO have a problem with it to a) be okay with it and b) not feel physically inferior?
Oh, and understand why people look at it, I enjoy it myself. I meant why do men look at it when they know how it makes some women feel, yet complain when women who are uncomfortable with it draw the very straight line between porn and their insecurities. (this question came from a discussion w/ some guy friends)
Well, now you're talking in specifics. I disagree with your male friends. I don't complain about women having body issues, and I do see how porn can create those issues. As I said, I think it's a drop in the bucket of a larger societal problem. But I also do not think most men feel the same as your friends. Defending porn and then telling a woman to stop having body issues is hypocritical.
I see where you're coming from, but I think you're talking about a small minority of insensitive men. Most men do not expect their significant other to be okay with porn if they're uncomfortable with it. Many women are into porn, but many are not. Most men are intuitive enough to realize when it bothers their wife or girlfriend.
If the guy is more into porn than you, that's when you dump him. But porn isn't going anywhere. The sooner we stop making it this big bogeyman, the better off we'll all be. Like anything--TV, food, drugs-- it can be abused and have ill effects on lives and relationships. But also like those things, it is harmless in moderation.
Men watch porn for all sorts of reasons, most of which are pretty basic. But they never do it to make their woman feel inferior.
Yes!! I absolutely agree (with anything it can be abused, food, drugs, etc) I do understand that seeing magazines or porn can make a woman feel physically inferior and some ppl do make efforts to change the advertised "norm", but I think it is the woman's first step to focus on her own self esteem and ensure she surrounds herself w/ ppl who DONT bash other bodies. It's like what Buddhha says to ppl who ask him if there's a heaven, thats not what you should be focusing on or thinking about. Focus on the now and on yourself. Don't worry about those guys. its a moo point
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_PaoZBSarfic/TU2Gx_HbZgI/AAAAAAAAFKM/qK2AGWRHbWk/s1600/christina-hendricks-sexy-smokey-dress.jpg
Normal?
"The fact that celebrities with normal body proportions (like, say, Christina Hendricks or the singer Adele) are a rarity these days is more than a little alarming." What is even more alarming is the degree to which women of normal body proportions, are called "fat." I refer to Jessica Simpson, Raven Simone, Britney Spears, and even Ashley Olson, all of whom I have seen reviled as "fat" when the most they may have done was gain a few pounds, and in most cases that's post-baby. (When Mary-Kate Olson was publicly battling anorexia, Ashley was labeled "the fat twin" by the media.)
Adele is not "normal". She is overweight. Sad but true. It's fantastic that she can be successful and have her talent recognized without being super-skinny, but calling her "normal" is not being honest.
Jordin Sparks may have been a better example.
Men suck, mens ideals suck. I wish men would shut their shut fat mouths
"There is always going to be porn, and men will always look at it."
Hmm, I just wish this was explained more, rather then just 'it's a guy thing'. That always seems like a cop out too me b/c guys don't want to actually want to stop doing these things. I mean, I'm a girl, and 'shopping, bitching, gushing over tall dark and handsome, and gossiping' are 'girl things', but I don't have to do them. And I don't.
Reading this answer was very insightful, and I appreciate the answer a lot. But I'm still left unsatisfied.
I'm a very confident person. I love my personality and life choices and goals and hard work. I exercise and eat well and I am very well read. But I'm not very good at being "feminine", ie, makeup, dressing up, being 'sexy'. I have rock bottom self confidence when it comes to looks and being around/compared to other women.
I'm sick of being criticized for not loving my body for it's attractiveness. I love my body when I eat well or go rock climbing, but I don't have to love my body and how I look, per se. I love everything else about myself, all of the IMPORTANT things. But I also am sick of men complaining on my bad body-image, but still wanting to watch porn or go to strip clubs when they are with me. I'd rather just continue on my path in life than deal with the contradiction.
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That's right ladies, watch porn with him. That way he can use your body to masturbate to while he's really thinking of young sexy porn stars. Aren't men great?