Because we don't want to be arguing or fighting with you. We shut down because we don't enjoy the annoying complaint session many women mistake as a discussion. It's not a discussion if the conversation begins with what I'm doing wrong and ends with what I should be doing right.
Men, by nature, do not appreciate conflict with our women. While no situation is devoid of temporary bouts of drama and riot, the intensity and randomness with which some women bring the drama puts us in stuck on stupid mode. The problem though, is not that we don't have an opinoin, its just that you often blindside us with these convos and fights that we don't know how to answer or want to answer them because we do not want to contribute to the blooming of an argument we wish we weren't having in the first place.
Also, when you get criticized - thats partly why so many men shut down - in the midst of a debate, it doesn't make us want to talk to you. Generally, we want you to go away. We shut down because often, it feels like we can do nothing right anyway, so why even argue with you about it. You feel how you feel, you feel that you're right, what's the point of this debate.
And do not BS yourself into thinking you actually care about how he feels. You don't. You only want to hear how he feels if it aligns with how you think he should feel.
So namely, men shut down because we really just don't like arguing with you and because you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.
It was written.
I'm going to suggest reading up on how women think here Panama, because you seriously need some sort of reality check.
1) If a woman is bitching at you, then man up and take some responsibility for whatever it was that you did wrong!
2) If a woman is talking to you, she expects your rebuttal, if she just wanted to vent, she would call one of her girlfriends. She obviously cares enough about the relationship to try to come to some sort of compromise with you and at least communicate the issues with you, you should be grateful she cared enough, if she didn't care, she would just pack her shit and move on. Which btw, when you shut down, only proves her doubts about your relationship and how much you give a shit even further. Because if YOU (as men) cared enough about your relationship, you would spend 10mins talking about the problem, and find a solution so she wouldnt have to keep nagging you about it. If you want her to go away, tell her, with your attitude, she might be happy to oblige!
3) Women work well in compromise, you should stop being so damn selfish and figure out how to do so. You just might find that the end result is a much happier one for you!
4) When you do come to a compromise, try writing them down, so if she tries to bring it up again, you can remind her of what she agreed to.
5) "if it ain't broke, dont fix it" applies here, because obviously, if she is complaining, something is broke and she wants to fix it.
6) An apology can go a long ways too, if done sincerely.
7) You really should read up on how women think, you would see that if an argument is intense, its because she feels strongly about something. 9 times out of 10, her bitching isn't actually random, and she has probably bit her tongue over the situation until she couldn't put up with something anymore. We (as women) don't enjoy fighting either. We want to make you happy and we will bend over backwards to do so, and when guys take advantage of that, we try to let it slide a time or two before we bother addressing the issue at all.
Okay, I think I'm done screaming at you now.
OP: Try not to just attack your man, it's clearly not working for you. Try making a list of your complaints, asking him when would be a good time to talk, waiting until then, and then discuss each complaint calmly, rationally, and respectfully, come to a compromise (which means you BOTH get 50% of your way, not you 75% and him 25%), and then move on to the next thing. Male brains do not function like ours, they do one thing at a time and coming at them with a bunch of issues all at once will make his mind shut down, so do it one issue at a time, let him process the issue and logically find a solution. Once you find a compromise, stick to it, don't decide after a day of trying it, that it doesn't work and then go back to fight some more, just wait a while and see what happens. Also, pick your battles. For example: if he scrapes his plate and puts it in the sink but doesnt rinse it off, big deal, at least he took time to scrape it and hit the sink! If he doesn't hit the hamper, compromise and tell him "i will pick up your dirty clothes, wash/dry/fold/put them away, if you will carry the hamper to the washer for me. Or I will do your laundry if you will hit the hamper. Don't yell at him for not being perfect. Also, dont yell at him for making a pile of dirty clothes away from the hamper, instead, put a hamper where he makes his pile. He will appreciate you making the gesture and you wont have to pick up dirty clothes : ).
Thank you!!!! You made excellent points!! Good god, I am definitely not one of those girls that yells at people. If I have problems I try to discuss them logically and calmly and I find a solution that suits both parties. Honestly, if I have to bring up something with a guy ( and course i dont want to ) and he shuts down on me then I'm going to consider breaking up with him. Really, whats the point of a relationship if we can't communicate about anything remotely negative. Its so immature to just shut down and walk away from problems instead of taking 5 min to discuss it and moving on.
Communication is really really important to me. I know that relationships are not always sunshine and rose no matter how hard I try to make my bf happy as much as I can. Things will crop up and we will have to deal with them. If a guy can't communicate with me on that stuff then I sure as hell am going to be second guessing our relationship. I also may start thinking (just thinking) about other guys to be with instead. Then I'll evaluate if its just a one time thing and he was having a crappy day or he's just immature. If its the latter I give him like 3 weeks to improve (I dont tell him of this timeline cause of course he'd shut down) and then I'm out of there!
For every woman saying that she discuss stuff there are several men who will say different. You sound like a control freak.
For every woman who tries to discuss things calmly with her boyfriend or husband, there is a little baby buddy boy telling her boyfriend or husband that she's a control freak.
1. Or she could be bitching about sometime stupid. You need to read up on women, sometimes they are not logical at all.
2. Obviously, you've not been in a relationship with a woman. I have. You are wrong.
3. By compromise you mean doing things her way. That is not compromise and I refuse to pretend otherwise.
7. This always seems stupid to me. You put yourself in a position for someone to take advantage of your "bending over backwards" then get angry when they actually do it. Clearly, you share some of the blame here. Getting mad at me for taking something you were freely handing out just makes me associate a particular pattern of behavior on your part with irrationality and I will essentially start ignoring future arguments arising from said situation since it has no real bearing on reality.
Since I grew up with a drama queen for a mother, I can see your point. When she gets started she doesn't want to listen to reason, and everything is always the other person's fault. When I "shut down" because it was too much at once, that's when she really got angry and called me spineless and worse. Usually it was about really stupid stuff, like spilling the milk or forgetting to do a chore.
Because I know how bad that feels, I would never ever do that to anybody, least of all a boyfriend/husband/SO. I wait until I'm calm and discuss it then. If I have to lock myself in the bathroom, that's what I do. I would rather have my guy a little irritated with me for being in the bathroom forever than have him (or me) shut down during a burst of anger.
2. How many relationships have you been in? 3?
google works both ways
1) Its only illogical if you aren't paying attention. And if she's really screaming about stupid stuff, maybe you should look at what she values from you, maybe the things you deem stupid are big things in perspective to her. She should probably pick her battles better...but that would lead to a repeat of #7 and you are so against that, remember?
2) Actually I've been in multiple relationships with women, I'm not wrong.
3) Learn to read, I said 50/50!!! That is what a compromise is...maybe you should google the definition while you are at it!
7) I didnt say it was smart of us, but we are TRYING to be generous and make it work. You taking advantage of it still makes you the pos here, not us for trying. At least we try!
I would just like to point out that, from my male perspective, all woman are not created equal. Woman don't necessarily have a reason for being mad in the first place, and so as panama said, when arguments do sporadically pop up, men often times don't understand them, or assume that they won't understand them. This "lost" feeling tends to make men want to cut their loses and regroup so that they can fully process and respond to these arguments.
That argument can be supported by somebody quite close to me, my wife... She's a college student, the mother of our daughter, and of course my wife. She has 2 main responsibilities as follows, keep up on school work, and take care of our daughter while I'm at work. Instead of that, she would dump our daughter on my parents, take the car and go visit friends/family, and as a result neglect every primary duty she had. The semester ends this Saturday(it's now Thursday), and she is only just now getting to her school work for the ENTIRE semester. She is now having to cram 4 papers, a semesters worth of homework, and prep for finals in one week lest she flunk out.
My point is this, when I asked on Wednesday how she was going to do in her first 2 classes, she informed me that she was not going to pass them because of the aforementioned procrastination. I said I would help her get the work for those 2 classes done, which we did together. Now, that is for only 2 classes, out of 4. The other 2 she began working on tonight. She finally got fed up with it and started blaming absolutely everything that was wrong in her life on me.
I could spend all day talking about this, but a summary should suffice. Some examples of my faults were that I wasn't making enough money for her to have another room to study in, that she had our daughter all day and she could never get time/focus/energy/concentration enough to do her homework, that she never had a quiet place to sit down and study, and last but not least, my favorite excuse, she never had a steady supply of MY aderall prescription to help her concentrate.
Now, looking back on that list, you can see that clearly I am a real son of a bitch. Right?
In all seriousness though, this argument is not rational. Halfway through the semester I realized(I'm not dense, just a "laissez faire" sort of guy) that she wasn't keeping up on the school end of things, and at first offered to have our daughter put full time in a daycare. After offering, I outright requested it. Each time she said she would like to do that, but then never got around to finding any daycares to look into. How can anything related to our daughter be my fault when I provided every tool to her that she could ever possibly want?
I understand that she is under a lot of stress, which I attribute a great deal of the blow up to, however the sheer idiocy of the argument stunned me. I couldn't even begin to think of a response, was she serious? Was she just mad? Does she have amnesia? After trying to convey this argument to her, the fire seemed to get even hotter. She then started going on about how she was to stupid for college, how everything was her fault, how life just hates her, and likes to dump all of it's crap on her.
I would more easily be able to write this off as an exception rather than a rule, however this is not the first time when I've done everything in my power for her, and when she doesn't hold up her end, blames it entirely on me.
To Nataliesmommy: have I stepped up and "owned" responsibility like a man, have I tried to comprimise(remember the daycare), or do you believe my wife is correct, and that her failures are a consequence of mine?
Here's my thing... I am not the screaming type.. However, if I have a problem with something going on in the realtionship, then why (does the guy) shut down? Why not (use the balls that God gave you) and man up?? Why not calmly stand your ground, and defend yourself? All women want is to be heard and find a compromise. I admit, there are some women out there who think that no matter what they are always right. However, not all of us are like that. All I have ever asked for is compromise... When he shuts down, that's when I give up on him. If he can't "be a man", then I will find a man that can.
Nah, I think he's pretty much right here.
AND, I'm a heterosexual female in a relationship. I've often wanted to to "discuss".
I don't think PJ needs to read up on women; the question wasn't "Why do women want to discuss/argue/scream?". He answered the question from a man's perspective on why MEN shut down.
Guys I've dated in the past have said the same thing: they don't want to argue. Despite what we may think (and I do care about his feelings and want to hear where he's coming from), that's just how some men receive our "discussion" tactics.
when a Man shuts down he just doesn't want too keep listening to your bitching. so do him a favor and shit the hell up before he goes and sleeps instead of being around for you. no guy likes arguing with his girl.
Because women are stupid.
You punch her directly in the face, not to hurt her, but to knock her out cold.
Then when she's coming to, holding an ice pack on her nose, softly give her the answers she was looking for. And next time she wants to argue she'll have to contemplate whether maybeline or hyaluronic acid or whatever will cover the ensuing scars that keep her from being such a pretty nightmare. Then she'll calm the f down and act like a reasonable human being...and communicate to her 'man' like a human being.
you women want equality. theres your f ing equality.
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Actually, I have to agree and can relate to Panama 100%. I am a woman in a lesbian relationship. I do not believe all women are like the one Panama is describing but I can tell you I am with one woman that acts exactly like he describes. I have been with other women who have their shit together and can get over trivial shit right away. It's the small stuff that I can't relate too. Get over it...Really...the only common denominator is this person was abandoned by her mother so she feels like at any given moment I will leave her....well guess what, you are creating your own fears by sabotaging the relationship. It is seriously the only relationship I have been in that has lacked confidence on the other end. I need to get a grip b/c I know I'm not at fault and I keep asking myself what the F%$#! is wrong with me for staying and going through this drama!
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If women only understood this. This is the abosolute truth. Men do not want to waste time "discussing" which is basically arguing, when we much rather have a more productive time with one another. The problem is not that women argue, it is what they argue about.
in one note to another your comment is jacked up get along and shut up
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I married a divorced woman who left her nice husband for another man when she was 30 yo. The fling broke up, and I met and married her about 6 yrs later. After only 1-2 yrs of marriage, I began to see my wife's pattern: every Friday she would pick a fight to ruin the weekend for us. Also, she constantly demeaned my parents. I pointed this out to her to no avail. After the next 4 yrs of marriage and numerous fights, I decided that my wife would never see her problem. I put on a mask and now am in total-shutdown mode emotionally. I have made excuses to refuse her sex now for 12 months and really am disgusted by her insensitivity to me...she even commented that her last boyfriend (who broke up her first marriage) had a much larger and more pleasurable penis! I checked out emotionally and will leave her soon.
Allow me to chime in. A lot of men just don't like drama and conflict with their woman or with any woman in their life. Some women are high conflict personalities, others are borderline personalities, others are just manipulative and controlling. Also, some men just don't like to argue with overgrown children.
Regarding standing up for yourself and defending your position, here are my thoughts. You can call her on her messed up behavior towards you but be prepared to be called "angry" or "sensitive" as a means to shame you. Or be prepared to be laughed at. This has happened to me numerous times, when I know that I didn't deserve to be yelled at. After standing up for uncalled behavior, I was told that I should consider anger management or that I shouldn't be so miserable. It's best to just discontinue a relationship with this person. At the first sign of inappropriate behavior, leave her immediately.
Another thing to consider. We live in a western society that is culturally biased against men. The court and legal system favors women. The dynamics between men and women aren't always violins and candlelight. If a woman yells at a man or verbally puts him down, and he retaliates with a verbal rebuttal, she may be crazy enough to call 911 and accuse him of hitting her or any other domestic crime he didn't commit. Emotions can be very destructive sometimes. So don't blame him if he does decide to either lock himself I the bathroom or jump in his car and go for a drive.
well i know that with my x she would yell even if we were in a store or had people over so i would just not answer her at all i would tell her her if she would raise her voice i would talk about it.but she woyld not and she allways had to have the last word so i gave up.O whenwehad sex she would not make a sound or say what she liked i would ask her but nothing she never trimed down there and she would take a shower in the am so by the time we went to bed it smelled like old boots so i left her. so you women dont yell and keep it cleanand tell him want you want.
well i know that with my x she would yell even if we were in a store or had people over so i would just not answer her at all i would tell her her if she would raise her voice i would talk about it.but she woyld not and she allways had to have the last word so i gave up.O whenwehad sex she would not make a sound or say what she liked i would ask her but nothing she never trimed down there and she would take a shower in the am so by the time we went to bed it smelled like old boots so i left her. so you women dont yell and keep it cleanand tell him want you want.
Wow.....I mean.....WOW. I totally agree 100% with the comments by Jackson. You hit the nail right on the head. I am actually going through this right now. I won't speak for women in general, but my wife in particular exhibits exactly this behavior. Now, i'm not saying she never has a valid complaint, but it usually something regarding the inherent differences between men and women, and her feelings wind up getting hurt. I understand she is hurt, and though i might not exactly understand why, (i am a man!) i do my best to listen and understand. That is except when (usually) she doesn't say anything about the issue for a few days, while inside her hurt turns to anger, and builds and builds. Then....BOOM. At the very best, i can expect to sit there a few hours and hear about what a total selfish ass i am, and how i never support her emotionally.....on and on and on and on. I would be happy to sit and discuss the issue. I am not at all afraid to admit when i'm wrong, and work on improving myself. I also know that i will never be perfect. All i ask is the same in return. Admit that perhaps something YOU did was wrong, or contributed to making the situation worse. It's not that hard to do, and it doesn't mean that it's all your fault. It just means that it's not all MY fault either. A relationship has two sides, and in hetero relationships, since we relate differently, there can NOT be a right or a wrong. I've had dear male friends for decades. Never once, when one of us wronged the other, was there ever a screaming fight. We never called each other names. It was..."This irritated me..." "Oh, sorry man, i'll try not to do that again." "Ok, let's go have a beer." DONE! And compromise? Really? There is no compromise most of the time. the compromise is that i agree to grovel, and she agrees to eventually forgive me. That's the compromise. And the whole time it builds resentment. Ladies, please please PLEASE believe this perspective. We (or at least i do) want to make you happy, and want to be that man of your dreams, but we are not women, and it takes TONS of effort for us to understand you, if we ever can. But we are willing to try. Just don't belittle us for our faults, and admit that you may be partly to blame as well, and things will go much, much better.
hey, you are completely right.... every single word!
But what if a woman wants an actual discussion (not to blame or manipulate), just some kind of recognition that something has happened. Not just to sweep it under the rug and let it fester and come out worse in the future, which is an immature denial of the problem. Women and men think differently. So women can only understand men if they SAY what they are thinking. There's nothing unmanly about a guy saying whats on his mind/how he feels, that is emotional maturity.