Yeah, those are both good ones. You can also say, "hey, if a woman can fight for her country, I'm not going to demean her with my heteronormative presumptions." I take this principle even further, and maintain that to avoid sexism, we should get to tag chicks in the nuts if they don't answer sports trivia questions correctly.
The bottom line is, if a guy doesn't pay for you on a date, it's because he chose not to, presumably because he likes his money. No man living today is so progressive that it doesn't even occur to him that dudes usually pay on a date. Anything said to the contrary is an exercise in improvisational enlightenment.
Which isn't to say I haven't used the same reasoning to avoid spending money I needed for video games. After all, there's also no legitimate reason men should pay for a woman on a date, we're just not allowed to say that without filtering it through a euphemism about gender bias.
I'll admit that I do prefer the guy to pay on the first date. It's not a total deal breaker if he doesn't but my reasoning for him to pay isn't simply because he's a man, it's really about his heart and generosity.
I often pick up the tab when I eat out with friends--if I know I make more than they do, if they've had a bad day, to celebrate, whatever the reason may be, as long as I can comfortably afford it, it's something I enjoy doing for my friends and it's another way of showing them I care about them.
So, the act of paying for me on a first date (especially if he asked me out) bodes well for my impression of him. Even if he paid because he just felt like he had to, at least he did it. And if a guy chose not to, I wouldn't judge him as a lesser man, but I would judge him as a less generous person and that's what counts more to me.
improvisational enlightment...i LOVE that!
I think whoever does the asking, does the paying, at least as far as a first date goes. Generally the guy is still the one asking the girl out because that's just how we've been conditioned (blah blah boring blah blah blah). This usually means one person is working a bit harder to gain the interest of the other party. If you're trying to show the best of you, that may be paying for the date. In a very superficial way it communicates that you're caring, generous, and a provider.
I also offer to pay or halve it. I once dated a guy who was laid off from his job, which isn't surprising given the economic climate, so one of us always paid for dinner and the other a movie. When one of us was broke we did free stuff like go to the dog park, rent a movie, or have a lot of sex :P He even just helped me house-sit my brothers place one weekend, we watched copious amounts of southpark and ate their food...score!
P.S these guys sound a bit resentful. Their faux forward thinking attitude on dating is quite apparent.
Not that it's right, but it could be the way these guys were raised. I've noticed a lot of younger guys think that they're "entitled" to something, when actually all they're really entitled to is jacksquat. Maybe Mommy gave them everything and they're spoiled little brats. Some of them won't even hold the door for their dates. Maybe the question asker should consider dating men a little older; 5-7 years older isn't that much of an age gap unless you're under 18.
So I may be in the minority here, but I really don't like it when the guy tries to pay on the first date. It does feel presumptuous and old fashioned, but most of all I feel like I'm in his debt, and somehow I'm supposed to make it up to him. Maybe after a few dates he can whip out his wallet, but on the first few I'm all about gender equality - that way I can be sure I like the guy on my own terms, and not just because of his generosity.
Chantelle has it right - whoever does the asking does the paying.
That way none of us have to get all bent out of shape about gender norms, male/female pride, not knowing where we stand, or feeling hurt.
Win win!
I think it shows that he thinks he doesn't have to work very hard to win you over - he thinks he's superior to you and doesn't feel the need to impress you. I had an otherwise awesome first date make no move to stop me from splitting the check even though he drank more alcohol than me which racked up the bill. It was a quick red flag and if we go out again I'll be way more suspicious of his intentions than if he'd paid on our first date. I consider myself a feminist and was shocked and disturbed by my own gut reaction
I prefer the guy to pay. We spend more to look nice and we get paid far less.
hey guys,
I have a dilemma. My boyfriend of 1 year now has never offered to pay me a meal or cinema since our first day. To tell the truth I am the one paying most of time for the 2 of us (restaurant, cine, proteins powders, clothes...). Yes he is at uni and doesn't have a job. But I am too and work 3 different jobs because I leave out of home. However, as soon as he gets some money from his parents he goes and buy his own proteins. We had the discussion of him working but he said he will but nothing. I am just scared that I am making the wrong choice. I want a man who can be independent for himself and sometimes please his gf.