Had a long question from a long time reader/commenter drop in on Wednesday. It's a bit too complex for an answer, but works well for a blog post. Whatislove - this one is for you.
"MM, it seems you're good at these types of questions and I really need your help. I'm 22 and I have an over-protective father to the point of being a dictator. I'm not allowed outside after night falls, if I go out with friends for a couple of hours he calls all the time and once or twice has even me to see if I was telling the truth about where I was. He controls every aspect of my life, including work--he made me turn down a really good position because he didn't like the people I would eventually have to work with. I've tried arguing logically, speaking to him like an adult, He just doesn't get it. Is there ANYTHING that I can do, because I'm starting to go crazy, I've put up with this for such a long time. I'm sorry this is such a long question. I hope you can help me. (and I hope I made it easier to track the question) Thank you."
As has been discussed many times before, being a parent isn't easy. Though we usually attack it from the aspect of the mother, in many ways being a good father is harder.
One of the hardest things is to stop being over-protective of our children, especially the girls. There are a lot of reasons, so here are a few.
Guys tend to be very possessive.
Lets face it, no one does the "mine" thing better than a guy. Suggesting a guy gives up something is akin to asking him to peel off his skin and roll around in salt. Children get scooped under the heading of "mine" too. It is too easy to forget we don't own our kids, we just get to borrow them for a while.
We hate to give up our dominance.
Sort of related to the above. The one place a guy usually has any power and influence is in their own home. Before you go saying "Men rule the world, so that is rubbish!" let me point out that, in the words of someone who is a bit of a douche, that is other men. The only place the vast majority of us can make any binding decisions at all is within our own families, especially with our children. Some guys need that, as a validation of their maleness, and hate like poison to give it up.
Letting you go means we are getting old
This applies to both men and women. Having children is a joy, don't get me wrong, but it is also a very visible clock counting down the remainder of your life. You are 22, which means your Dad is at the very least approaching 50, the time when the rampant ear hairs sprout and he has to start avoiding young punks instead of intimidating them into backing off.
By keeping you around and subject to his rules, he can convince himself it is 10 years earlier and he isn't slowing down and getting old. Gerontophobia hits us all and is reinforced every day.
We can't help but protect you
People are wired that way. By the time you are toddling and falling on your a*s every 4 steps, Dads are in full on protective mode. It gets stronger, the longer Dad is around, and is known as the Westermarck Effect. Look it up.
We love you.
The world is a dangerous place, full of dangerous people and things. We know that and have protected you as best we can from it all your life. We simply fear for you - not wanting you to take the kicks that life impartially bestows on everyone. You will do it when you have kids. The fear is a constant.
It is simply wrong. A dog doesn't learn to fend for itself if it is constantly chained, and a person doesn't learn to fend for themself by being constantly looked after and having every need met. Yet it is so damned hard to watch you making exactly the mistakes we made at your age.
Your Dad will be suffering a mixture of all of the above. The proportions - well you will know best.
Now as to what to do, I don't know. You have tried talking, but he does not see you as an adult. He has gone way beyond the line in terms of protecting you, especially when he stopped you from starting to make your own way in the world.
The only real way to get on with your life and, very slowly, get the respect of your parents as an actual seperate human being, is to leave home. It ain't easy though.
Good luck.
"MM, it seems you're good at these types of questions and I really need your help. I'm 22 and I have an over-protective father to the point of being a dictator. I'm not allowed outside after night falls, if I go out with friends for a couple of hours he calls all the time and once or twice has even me to see if I was telling the truth about where I was. He controls every aspect of my life, including work--he made me turn down a really good position because he didn't like the people I would eventually have to work with. I've tried arguing logically, speaking to him like an adult, He just doesn't get it. Is there ANYTHING that I can do, because I'm starting to go crazy, I've put up with this for such a long time. I'm sorry this is such a long question. I hope you can help me. (and I hope I made it easier to track the question) Thank you."
As has been discussed many times before, being a parent isn't easy. Though we usually attack it from the aspect of the mother, in many ways being a good father is harder.
One of the hardest things is to stop being over-protective of our children, especially the girls. There are a lot of reasons, so here are a few.
Guys tend to be very possessive.
Lets face it, no one does the "mine" thing better than a guy. Suggesting a guy gives up something is akin to asking him to peel off his skin and roll around in salt. Children get scooped under the heading of "mine" too. It is too easy to forget we don't own our kids, we just get to borrow them for a while.
We hate to give up our dominance.
Sort of related to the above. The one place a guy usually has any power and influence is in their own home. Before you go saying "Men rule the world, so that is rubbish!" let me point out that, in the words of someone who is a bit of a douche, that is other men. The only place the vast majority of us can make any binding decisions at all is within our own families, especially with our children. Some guys need that, as a validation of their maleness, and hate like poison to give it up.
Letting you go means we are getting old
This applies to both men and women. Having children is a joy, don't get me wrong, but it is also a very visible clock counting down the remainder of your life. You are 22, which means your Dad is at the very least approaching 50, the time when the rampant ear hairs sprout and he has to start avoiding young punks instead of intimidating them into backing off.
By keeping you around and subject to his rules, he can convince himself it is 10 years earlier and he isn't slowing down and getting old. Gerontophobia hits us all and is reinforced every day.
We can't help but protect you
People are wired that way. By the time you are toddling and falling on your a*s every 4 steps, Dads are in full on protective mode. It gets stronger, the longer Dad is around, and is known as the Westermarck Effect. Look it up.
We love you.
The world is a dangerous place, full of dangerous people and things. We know that and have protected you as best we can from it all your life. We simply fear for you - not wanting you to take the kicks that life impartially bestows on everyone. You will do it when you have kids. The fear is a constant.
It is simply wrong. A dog doesn't learn to fend for itself if it is constantly chained, and a person doesn't learn to fend for themself by being constantly looked after and having every need met. Yet it is so damned hard to watch you making exactly the mistakes we made at your age.
Your Dad will be suffering a mixture of all of the above. The proportions - well you will know best.
Now as to what to do, I don't know. You have tried talking, but he does not see you as an adult. He has gone way beyond the line in terms of protecting you, especially when he stopped you from starting to make your own way in the world.
The only real way to get on with your life and, very slowly, get the respect of your parents as an actual seperate human being, is to leave home. It ain't easy though.
Good luck.
Jeez. Move out. You're 22 years old -- you're an adult, and you no longer need his permission for anything. Stop asking. The only way he can continue to control you is if you're living under his roof. Get out.
I've also got to take MM to task for his answer here. This isn't loving, protective behavior. This is abusive, controlling behavior. She should recognize the pattern now so she doesn't repeat it in her dating relationships. I'm concerned your response suggests to her that the way she's being treated is somehow acceptable or normal. It's not.
That is how parents are... They do things out of love. But yep, they can be overbearing. The expression of love varies. Parents aren't perfect people.
If you think this is abuse, you should go to other countries and see how parents raise their children. Don't throw the word "abuse" so lightly.
Abuse, no. But controlling, definetly yes. And that is still not a good relationship. I had a very over protective father as well, but he was smart enough to realize that he couldnt control the world and someday I was going to end up in it no matter what he does. He knew I was better off educated instead of being locked away somewhere. So he gave me the tools I needed to survive in the world. That's what a good parent does. No matter how much it kill them, they put their child's needs before their own. This girls fathers is putting his needs before hers. But, she is part of the problem as well. He is over protective but I can bet he takes of (controls) every aspect of her life. She is 22 and by law an adult. She stays because she chooses to. Best thing for her to do is leave. And there is nothing her father can do about it. Hopefully she will have the strength and courage to go off on her own and not get caught in another relationship like her father.
My point exactly! :) Perhaps there is a reason why her father is like this to her, no?
I have to disagree somewhat here MM. Yes her father loves her but stopping her from taking a job that's good for her is wrong. I have an overprotective mother, I live on my own and she calls me twice a day, EVERY DAY. But when it comes to school and work(I'm a 23yo grad student who works part-time btw) she has never stopped me from doing anything that can better my life. My mom hates that I'm living alone, but I'm doing cause I got a scholarship for school and a great job 4 hours away, so she deals with it. When I was deciding if I should go away for school she never tried to persuade me to stay cause of her own selfishness.
Do what you can to save money so you can move out. That is your only way to end this cycle. Or try to see if a friend is also looking to move out and both of you can save money by living together.
Good Luck!!
What MM did is to try to make her see the side of her father (I would think this is because MM is a dad himself! LOL) = Who freaking knows why her dad didn't want her to work with the crowd in a prospective place? Perhaps those people were really bad influence or something. Protectiveness of parents is a natural thing. Overprotectiveness, well, of course that's a different story.
I had to work in the government (where my father was) because he wanted me to become a lawyer like himself (since back in my country, lawyers are revered and not hated unlike here in the US). Well, despite the restrictions and wishes of my father, I still managed to step away and show him I want to become a woman of my own. (Yep, I moved out. I made it clear even before I started working that I want to be as independent as I can by enrolling in a university 5 hours away from home.) After almost 2 years being immersed in the culture of lawyers, wanna-be lawyers, aspiring lawyers and court personnel and justices; I moved again, this time, to a different country to try and see what's in store for me. I was 24. My dad, in spite of his unspoken worries (I am his only daughter), hugged me before I boarded the plane. My dad was (over)protective of me, but it evened out because my mom talks to him and calms him down if needed. (They are such a good pair!)
You have to understand... Dads and moms alike have a hard time letting us go and saying "Here world! This is my daughter! She's all yours!" This would probably be hard to understand for some, but he probably is still waiting for you to show him you're strong and independent enough so he can loosen up his grip on you. Until then, and until you move out, learn what you can from your dad and try to understand his reasoning, maybe a bit of his own family history would shed some light to his behavior too.
Oh, I have experience with overprotective fathers. You'll hardly find fathers more overprotective than in my culture. Thankfully, my dad isn't nearly as bad as the asker's- though I know fathers who are even worse than the asker's. That is extremely over-bearing behavior and it IS, in my opinion, mental abuse.
What you have to understand is that not all fathers are the same. Logical reasoning or proving yourself, which may work for some, won't do shit for others. Some fathers will stay over-protective no matter what you do. I'm not saying he doesn't love you; he does it because he loves you. But that doesn't mean you have to take his behavior. Your solution is to face your adulthood and move out.
It is awfully easy to suggest that this young woman move out on her own, however, has anyone taken a look at the salaries (if they even exist) of 22 year olds these days. It is becoming extremely difficult to find positions that earn enough to fund your own apartment, never mind a house, in most places that is completely out of the question.
I am sure if she was in a position to move out she wouldn't be asking this question. I am 24 and I know many of my peers as well as myself would move out if we could. The choice is to live at home and contribute to the household/pay minimal rent (hopefully with reasonable leeway and freedoms) or scrap by in poverty trying to live on our own. It is not an easy decision.
What can't be forgotten is it puts strain on both generations. I'm sure the parents in these situations would love to have an empty nest in some respects. Most of the children in these situations I know (aside from the plain old freeloaders) would love independence. However, I know, I would be even more miserable if I were piling up debt and eating ramen for dinner every night.
I wish this woman the best of luck. I know the struggles of trying to get your parents to recognize you are an adult (even though you will always be their child). You are in an exceptionally difficult position. I hope for you that you will be able to build up a savings soon that will enable you to get your own place. Hopefully you have some good reliable friends who may be interested in becoming your roommate(s). In the meantime, just grin and bear it. This won't be permanent. You will be strong enough to earn your way out eventually!
I've been there. We all have. It's hard, but possible. Eat the ramen. Get a roommate. Move out.
Just move out..., it's really that simple.
wow. remind me if i ever have girls to not care if anything happens to them!