So here's the situation. No Teedra Moses. Google her. I asked a friend of mine if a guy who was dating a woman very casually and decided that he only wanted to be friends (but had done nothing romatic with the woman yet) was under any obligation to tell the woman. She said, absolutely. My thinking was, well, if they're only hanging out basically and have never crossed any lines, why even have the conversation...why not just let the friendship happen naturally?
Her response was that the woman needs to know so that she can decide how she wants the relationship to proceed. It occurs to me that many, if not most, women are focused on controlling every facet of their emotional situation as possible. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it seems that every act a woman makes early in the dating process is geared towards not getting played, while ironically expecting a man to be as forthcoming with his feelings as possible so that she can decide what to do with them...effectively playing himself if she decides she doesn't want to proceed with him.
Paradox, thy name is dating.
My counter was that his actions were fairly explicit in that he never did anything to indicate interest beyond friendship: no kissing, sex, or inappropriate touching, mild flirting as friends tend to do, etc. Basically nothing that could construe that there was more there than existed. She still said she'd want to know and the guy should tell her. His actions weren't enough.
Hmmm...
Now, I'm part of the actions speak louder than words camp, and many women I know claim to be in that camp as well...until it's not convenient. Such as this case. She wants to know definitely so that she doesn't screw herself later. However, as happens many times in dating, many women will ascribe a man's actions to his feelings and things he hasn't said. Well, he must like me because he spends all this time with me (true) and because he buys me things and makes efforts to show me he appreciates me (all true). But the thing is there, while the man has yet to say "I love you", the woman is taking those actions as her means to determine what's going on. Sure it's not foolproof, but she's not going to cut the guy off because he hasn't said it. Because he's showing her.
So in one scenario, his actions don't count, and in another they do. Color me badd. Then color me confused.
I guess the difference is in the first situation, the words might end the tryst and in the other, they will push it further, so the information is different, but still. I find it interesting to say the least. It's a matter of emotional convenience...which ever action (no pun intended) spurs the reaction necessary is the one women want.
I understand this, hell, if I were a woman I'd probably go crazy dealing with emotionally distant men and closed off souls who never got emo unless they wanted some booty. So really, this is just more of an observation than an indictment.
But it's an interesting observation to say the least.
I wrote all that to ask, basically, ladies, would you want to know if the guy just wanted to be friends even if he never did anything to indicate otherwise once you started hanging out?
Yes! I would absolutely want to know where I stood. BTW, this blog runs counter to others I've read that stated "most men do not wish to be 'just friends' with a woman if he's spending time with her." I would assume that if a man wants to "hang out" with me in any capacity, he's interesting in being more than friends and I think that's a fair assumption. If the case is otherwise, he needs to make that clear.
Is it really that unusual for a guy to hang out with girls as friends?
I am male, and most of my friends are female. None of them seemed confused by that idea, either.
It depends how it all began - you state 'casually dating'. That means she thinks dating. Which means 'not dating, just friends' needs to be explicitly stated. I think the only time when the 'just friends' topic needn't come up and be solely based on actions are if people meet through a group and never seem to move beyond friendly actions. But in any other case, if it is just boy and girl, eventually it needs to be worked in like, ' I'm glad we're friends!'.
I'm glad you posted about this, GBFF! Girls, in general, are pretty neurotic about wanting to define the relationship and know where they stand with a guy. I'll be the first to admit that I do this ALL the time. I wish I didn't get so caught up in worrying about it because it's really nerve wracking and you can't know what he does or doesn't want without asking him. Trying to gauge that from his words, actions, behaviors, etc. (pretty much from anything short of asking him point blank) solves nothing and only serves to further fuel your neuroticism.
But anywho, I see your point about how we (girls) want to know what the guy thinks when it suits our needs, whether or not that's contradictory across situations on the whole. Yes, it's not always fair, but I think it's a defense mechanism, as you alluded to. Girls try to prevent getting hurt. All the time. (
In regard to the conversation you had with your friend, I don't think a guy has to tell a girl who he hasn't made a physical move on (i.e., tried to kiss, grope, take back to his place, etc.) that he just wants to be friends. In my opinion, a guy needs to say something after things have progressed to the physical level and the physical intimacy has been consistent/stable for some time. (Just enough time such that it's clear both are interest in each other physically.) Because when you add physical intimacy to the mix, the lines become blurred as to who wants what, and that's when things need to be clarified. Without the physical part, I don't think anything needs to be said. It can fizzle out naturally on its own.
So yea, that's my jumbled stream of consciousness take on all of this :)
It is hard to say by the information given. You state casual dating and that the man decided he just wanted to be friends, which sounds like he had the intention of possibly having a relationship. So telling the woman depends on whether or not she knew of his intention. If by casual you mean they only met in group settings or they weren't clear defined dates to begin with, then no, the friendship can occur naturally. If the dates were clearly dates and he paid for her and tried to woo her even though there was no kissing or touching, then I think he SHOULD tell her. Because that would be the polite thing to do.
However, I think it would be pretty obvious after a few more hang outs that he is not interested in anything else, so the conversation isn't necessary, BUT it would make my life easier and less confused because his original actions suggest wanting me and the latter don't.
So we'll get the point eventually by the actions, but i think the guy is basically looking for an excuse not to have a potentially uncomfortable conversation.
No way. I mean if I'm dating a guy and he hasn't made any moves by the third or fourth date, then it's clear we've slipped into friends territory. He doesn't have to tell me, I get it. But usually guys aren't interested in "just friends" and that's what gets me in this whole scenario.
To flip the situation (and because this kind of goes with something I've been meaning to ask), I've been flirting pretty heavily with two guys, one of them a friend who's always had a crush on me, the other someone I just met. I feel kind of bad, because it seems I'm leading them on, but I've explicitly told them that I don't want a relationship right now. I've never crossed a line with either of them (absolutely nothing physical), but sometimes you just kind of need someone to talk to, especially when you're single and alone, and kind of too broken to try an actual relationship with anyone. Can someone give me some feedback, am I being a b*tch here?
I am on the other end of that now. It's not fair to say to someone I don't want a relationship "right now." It's not 100% direct and can be confusing.
Flirting with a man that is interested in you is manipulative. If you have no intention of ever dating either of them and you know they have feelings for you, you need to talk about it. A true friend will understand, and respect you more for it. But don't be selfish just because it feels good for you....please consider the other person(s) feelings.
If you're broken, talk to a therapist. Otherwise, are you considering dating either one of them? What is your agenda.....?
*sigh* I think you're right.
Well, I would consider dating either of them, but really nothing further than that. But really though, I have talked to them about it, in detail, and they know exactly where I stand. But I still feel like they might feel like I would change my mind. And on that note, if I were to try to distance myself, would I need to tell them? And we're back to the original question.
WELL, PANAMA, I'LL HAVE TO AGREE WITH YOUR GIRL FRIENDS ON THIS ONE... it would be nice if "actions speak louder than words" was fool-proof. So many times, ESPECIALLY if a guy (or girl) is trying to play you, their actions cannot be read accurately. There are also times where, even innocently, someone's actions can be misinterpreted. I think BOTH actions and words is the best route, even though it may not be 100% accurate, either.
My BF, who recently dumped me, used to always say "actions speak louder than words" when he was trying to make a point. Meanwhile, he would treat me badly, ignore me, but then say he loved me. You can't always pigeon-hole someone's intentions. You just have to hope you don't become a victim of someone's dishonesty. COMMUNICATION is key...
Also, just because a guy hasn't made a move on a girl, doesn't mean he doesn't desire to. Maybe he's shy or feels it's not the right time. I've experienced that. The reverse is true....just because someone makes a move on you, doesn't mean they are interested...they just may be horny...unfortunately. Each situation is different, so I don't think there's a generalization we can go by here.
The word 'dating' implies that he's interested in more than friendship in the beginning so I think yes it needs to be clarified. I don't date my friends? Do you?
These are all valid points....I've been recently flirted with/kissed/romanced/wined and dined by a man who I once dated briefly, and became single again recently. Although all "actions" pointed to dating again, he "wasn't ready to fall in love again."
I felt used. I have a strong connection with him, but it's hard to know what he really wants from me. Although a man might want you, he may also be confused too. It's been ingrained into womens' minds the"he's just not into you" theory. We have been told men are simple, and already know whether they want you or not. I know now, it's not so black and white. That's why we overanalyze....because sometimes WE want that simplicity too! ; )
I'm just LOL'ing to myself on how I would feel, as a warm-blooded female, if I was casually dating a guy, who then turned around and was honest enough to tell me we should just "be friends."... On one hand, the honesty would be refreshing; however, call me shallow, but my ego would really take a blow on that one - obviously, my casual dating prowess must have been lacking in some major department, and I would prefer to crawl under a rock somewhere than just walk it back to "friends"... LOL Anybody know what I mean? I don't know - awkward, awkward, awkward..
i'm with you i don't think he would need to say anything about it, i think it would be pretty obvious (or should be) if he chooses friendship.
Yes, I'd want to know. I was with a guy for 8 months in this same situation. We never did anything romantic but we went out on date like activities a few times a week, every week for 8 months. He even told me he loved me. Then he started dating someone else, didn't even tell me they were dating, stopped calling me all together and is now engaged to her after 6 months of dating. My life would have been MUCH easier had he just made it clear from the beginning that there was nothing going on.