In yet another installment of our continuing flirtation with serious debate, Emily Gordon of Lemondrop and I discuss the double-edged sword that is romantic persistence. What's really the best way to deal with unwanted attention at a bar? How do you let a guy know he's barking up the wrong tree, while minimizing the chance of triggering a psychotic episode?
Read on, for no less than two opinions on the subject (and indeed no more).
Emily Writes:
This cuts to the heart of several of the biggest stereotypes out there about men and women, so I think everyone's to blame. Michael immediately zeroed in on the man side of it, saying that men are always taught to never give up because there's a chance we're playing hard to get.
And that's slightly true. But what's also slightly true is that men are terrible at reading non-verbal communication. So whereas you think your crossed arms and avoidance of eye contact is speaking volumes, he is still thinking about when you'll have sex. Other proof of this: You can have a fight with a girlfriend in front of a man, and he will have no idea that anything went down.
What concerns me most is the long-standing tradition of women putting up with behavior we're not comfortable with out of an expectation to be "nice." If he's making moves you're not into, hinting ain't gonna cut it. You need to strike firmly and kindly, and you need to leave no doors open.
That said, what you've done so far isn't keeping him from hitting on you, so rethink the signals you're sending: Are you still sitting near him? Think about it -- being pursued feels good -- and it's our dirty little secret that sometimes, even though we're telling him no, we enjoy the attention. If you're really not into him, you need to tell him straight up to cut it, then follow through if he doesn't stop.
Michael Telepathically Inputs:
Well, that was a thorough and rousing exchange of ideas. The funny thing to me is that I think we agree on the basic dynamics at play here, yet the only feasible solution seems to be for men to stop approaching women or for women to nut up and hurt our feelings a little more.
At the end of the day, rejection hurts. You may as well get the message across sooner rather than later.
I think we'd all be better off in the long run if women felt comfortable enough to just straight-up say, "Listen to me: I'm not interested. Thank you. Good night." But guys should do their part, too; we should recognize that that faraway look in your eyes might not be you imagining the two of us on a beach somewhere, but instead checking the room for escape routes.
I'd advise guys to go the "better safe than sorry" route and assume that if a girl seems uninterested, she means it. Move on. And ladies, if that means you end up alone for the evening because you played too hard to get, well, you can sort that out next time around. Guys have never had a problem taking "yes" for an answer.
Read on, for no less than two opinions on the subject (and indeed no more).
Emily Writes:This cuts to the heart of several of the biggest stereotypes out there about men and women, so I think everyone's to blame. Michael immediately zeroed in on the man side of it, saying that men are always taught to never give up because there's a chance we're playing hard to get.
And that's slightly true. But what's also slightly true is that men are terrible at reading non-verbal communication. So whereas you think your crossed arms and avoidance of eye contact is speaking volumes, he is still thinking about when you'll have sex. Other proof of this: You can have a fight with a girlfriend in front of a man, and he will have no idea that anything went down.
What concerns me most is the long-standing tradition of women putting up with behavior we're not comfortable with out of an expectation to be "nice." If he's making moves you're not into, hinting ain't gonna cut it. You need to strike firmly and kindly, and you need to leave no doors open.
That said, what you've done so far isn't keeping him from hitting on you, so rethink the signals you're sending: Are you still sitting near him? Think about it -- being pursued feels good -- and it's our dirty little secret that sometimes, even though we're telling him no, we enjoy the attention. If you're really not into him, you need to tell him straight up to cut it, then follow through if he doesn't stop.
Michael Telepathically Inputs:Well, that was a thorough and rousing exchange of ideas. The funny thing to me is that I think we agree on the basic dynamics at play here, yet the only feasible solution seems to be for men to stop approaching women or for women to nut up and hurt our feelings a little more.
At the end of the day, rejection hurts. You may as well get the message across sooner rather than later.
I think we'd all be better off in the long run if women felt comfortable enough to just straight-up say, "Listen to me: I'm not interested. Thank you. Good night." But guys should do their part, too; we should recognize that that faraway look in your eyes might not be you imagining the two of us on a beach somewhere, but instead checking the room for escape routes.
I'd advise guys to go the "better safe than sorry" route and assume that if a girl seems uninterested, she means it. Move on. And ladies, if that means you end up alone for the evening because you played too hard to get, well, you can sort that out next time around. Guys have never had a problem taking "yes" for an answer.
Ouch! This hits a little close to the bone for my comfort. I try to turn down date requests gently, I hate hurting anyone's feelings, much less some poor guy who probably had to screw up his courage to ask me out. Some of them I actually become friends with, but some seem to be born salesmen. They say, "You're not seeing anyone, so why not go out with me?" I've learned that the best answer is, "I'm touched, really, but I don't have time for a relationship. Thanks for asking me out, though."
Right now I'd rather have a college degree than a boyfriend, but if someone really special came along, I wouldn't refuse.
This is fascinating to me as a linguist. I feel like if more people learned about the differences between men's and women's conversational styles, the number of arguments between couples would drastically decrease. So many fights are caused by problems in communication. I wish I had a nickel for every time my boyfriend told me "Well why didn't you just say what you meant!" The problem is that I DID say what I meant, just in a different style than he would have, and I chose that style for a variety of conscious and subconscious reasons. I think men and women both need to realize that what they say (or don't say) might not mean the same thing to the person who is hearing (or not hearing) it, just because of different conversational styles. So I guess the situation in which the poor girl is getting mercilessly hit on by the guy who thinks he's going to get some is neither the girl's or the guy's fault, simply the fault of the society and psychology that taught us to communicate that way.
This is funny to me...I believe I wrote in a question to our ever clever "Funny guy" that entailed this exact problem. AMAZING! =)
I hate when you're straight forward: "Look! I'm not interested! I've been nice so far because you're by best friends brother-in-law. But persistence IS NOT key with me. You are not going to wear me down! I do not like you, and will never see you as any more than "B's" annoying older brother! Seriously, please leave me alone now!" I literally said ALL of this and more. He laughed and tried to rub up closer to me. I was just short of slapping that jackass! But I walked away and haven't been partying with them since!
This guy is such a tool this is how explains this away: (to MY mom at a bar): Tool: You know I really like Oly, but I understand why she keeps rejecting me, I turned her down once. We were full on making out and I told her it wasn't going to happen. I'm sorry and I wish she could get over it. But I'm sure she'll come around.
TALK ABOUT DEMENTED! (for the record I HAVE NEVER EVEN REMOTELY COME CLOSE TO KISSING THIS GUY!)
Then: Tool: Mneh, Oly's just too much. She wants too much, and I'm not ready for a relationship
BFF: Is that so? Is that why she just hooks up w/ "J" and has to keep reminding HIM she's not in for anything serious?
Tool: Well that's just w/ "J", you know how HE is!
ARE YOU EFFIN SERIOUS!?
**RANT OVER!
MS. You are worth waiting a lifetime for, and I would if you asked me to.
be bullet proof glass. Be polite and walk away.
What a lovely day for a 754220! SCK was here
What a lovely day for a 4026819! SCK was here
What a lovely day for a 4981757! SCK was here
What a lovely day for a 2024679! SCK was here
What a lovely day for a 4171720! SCK was here
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I agree