Welcome to GuySpeak Vs. Lemondrop, a new forum for debating the finer points of dating, relationships, pop culture, and more, with our awesome lady pals at Lemondrop.
Today's installment: Boyfriends without benefits. What's up with nice guys who dote on their female friends, perpetually annexing themselves to the "friend zone"? Read on for Lemondrop-er Emily Gordon's take, followed by my own thoughts.
Emily writes:
Recently I listened to my friend Leo complain about how he's relegated to the friend role with every woman in his life.
He griped and griped about how he puts himself out there emotionally to women, only to wind up in sexless friendships. Then, as the night progressed and other people showed up, I watched him give massages and gallantly buy drinks for our female friends, and I realized why Leo can't find a girlfriend:
He's a boyfriend without benefits.
Let me explain. Have you ever known a guy who, in a completely non-creepy way, spends all of his energy doting on his platonic female friends? A boyfriend without benefits may compliment you, touch your hair, buy you drinks, or always remember your birthday, but he will never make a move on you. Whether or not he finds you attractive or wants to date you winds up being irrelevant, because these guys end up viable sexual objects for nobody -- and that seems unfair. So I'd like to direct this open letter to all the boyfriends without benefits out there.
Dear Guys,
Okay, sit down -- this isn't going to be easy.
Listen, I know you've been having trouble finding a girlfriend. I know you think of yourself as a sensitive, "girl's guy" kind of guy, and you totally are. You're like Paul Rudd in "I Love You, Man" times a thousand; I, and all of your other female friends, really, really appreciate it.
But I have to tell you, as a friend? You're never going to get a girlfriend acting like this.
The benefit for a woman who's in a monogamous relationship is having someone to spoon over Netflix, smell her hair appreciatively and make sure she gets home safe at night. If you're doing all that stuff already, why on earth would any girl decide to make things more complicated by involving sex and feelings and dates?
You're essentially the male equivalent of the girl that tipsily gives her guy friends blowjobs and then wonders why she can't get any of the guys to date her. None of the girls in your life are going to buy the relationship cow if they're getting the attention and affection milk for free.
And forget about it if you're doting on girls that are already in relationships. Even if the girl is using your affection as a substitute for the affection she's not getting from her boyfriend, there is almost no chance that she will one day wake up and realize that you're the man she really loves. She would if life were an 80s movie, but sadly, life is not. This doesn't make her behavior okay -- but this is how it is.
I'm saying all this knowing that it may result in getting less back rubs, but guys, if you want girls to date you rather than think of you as their "safety school", it's time to start holding back on some of the love. When girls want to whine to you about their boyfriends, don't tell them that they deserve better and then stare passionately into their eyes.
Don't buy them drinks, and for god's sake, if they say their shoulders hurt, do not massage them.
Be a friend, but for a bit, pretend you're a girl friend rather than a guy friend, and I'll bet you the ladies will come running into your sensitive arms.
Love always
Emily
Chic Geek (Nick Nadel) says:
Sadly, Emily, I have to agree, because the type of guy you describe is basically me in the 9th grade. "Can I make you a mixtape/carry heavy things for you/give you a friendly back rub? What's that? You just want to be friends, and are in love with the jerk lacrosse player who's into Phish and treats you like garbage? That's understandable. I'll just be over here warming up my shoulder, seeing as how you'll be crying on it shortly."
If I had a time machine, I wouldn't use it to go back in time and assassinate Hitler or hang out with dinosaurs. Instead, I would deliver Emily's letter to myself, circa 1994, thereby preventing a ton of heartache. (Granted, meeting my past self would probably cause the universe to collapse in on itself, but it would all be worth it.)
It took me a long, long, time to realize that I was permanently sending myself to the "friend zone" by being a "boyfriend without benefits." I'm not saying you shouldn't be a nice guy, fellas. Contrary to popular belief, nice guys do finish first, leaving all the losers and scumbags in their awesome wake.
But there's a difference between being nice, and being at your female pal's beck and call 24/7 in the hopes that she'll wake up one day and suddenly not see you as that nice guy whom she has zero interest in sexually. (And, guys, you aren't fooling anyone with the shoulder rub move. She knows you want to hook up with her, and is using that to get free tension relief.)
So, guys, if you want to be her boyfriend, you should be confident, easygoing, funny, and a little mysterious. Don't act like her boyfriend in the hopes that she'll eventually see you as boyfriend material.
The same goes for the ladies out there: showering him with attention, and showing him what a great girlfriend you would make, won't make him go, "Well, I guess she's my girlfriend now." If I go into a bank wearing a top hat and a monocle and announce that I am Prescott J. Bankington III, wealthy financier and raconteur, no one is going to believe that I'm actually a powerful captain of industry. They're just going to think that I'm a crazy person who purchased a cheap monocle at a costume shop. You can act like his boyfriend (or her girlfriend) all you want, but you're still going home alone.
Today's installment: Boyfriends without benefits. What's up with nice guys who dote on their female friends, perpetually annexing themselves to the "friend zone"? Read on for Lemondrop-er Emily Gordon's take, followed by my own thoughts.
Emily writes: Recently I listened to my friend Leo complain about how he's relegated to the friend role with every woman in his life.
He griped and griped about how he puts himself out there emotionally to women, only to wind up in sexless friendships. Then, as the night progressed and other people showed up, I watched him give massages and gallantly buy drinks for our female friends, and I realized why Leo can't find a girlfriend:
He's a boyfriend without benefits.
Let me explain. Have you ever known a guy who, in a completely non-creepy way, spends all of his energy doting on his platonic female friends? A boyfriend without benefits may compliment you, touch your hair, buy you drinks, or always remember your birthday, but he will never make a move on you. Whether or not he finds you attractive or wants to date you winds up being irrelevant, because these guys end up viable sexual objects for nobody -- and that seems unfair. So I'd like to direct this open letter to all the boyfriends without benefits out there.
Dear Guys,
Okay, sit down -- this isn't going to be easy.
Listen, I know you've been having trouble finding a girlfriend. I know you think of yourself as a sensitive, "girl's guy" kind of guy, and you totally are. You're like Paul Rudd in "I Love You, Man" times a thousand; I, and all of your other female friends, really, really appreciate it.
But I have to tell you, as a friend? You're never going to get a girlfriend acting like this.
The benefit for a woman who's in a monogamous relationship is having someone to spoon over Netflix, smell her hair appreciatively and make sure she gets home safe at night. If you're doing all that stuff already, why on earth would any girl decide to make things more complicated by involving sex and feelings and dates?
You're essentially the male equivalent of the girl that tipsily gives her guy friends blowjobs and then wonders why she can't get any of the guys to date her. None of the girls in your life are going to buy the relationship cow if they're getting the attention and affection milk for free.
And forget about it if you're doting on girls that are already in relationships. Even if the girl is using your affection as a substitute for the affection she's not getting from her boyfriend, there is almost no chance that she will one day wake up and realize that you're the man she really loves. She would if life were an 80s movie, but sadly, life is not. This doesn't make her behavior okay -- but this is how it is.
I'm saying all this knowing that it may result in getting less back rubs, but guys, if you want girls to date you rather than think of you as their "safety school", it's time to start holding back on some of the love. When girls want to whine to you about their boyfriends, don't tell them that they deserve better and then stare passionately into their eyes.
Don't buy them drinks, and for god's sake, if they say their shoulders hurt, do not massage them.
Be a friend, but for a bit, pretend you're a girl friend rather than a guy friend, and I'll bet you the ladies will come running into your sensitive arms.
Love always
Emily
Chic Geek (Nick Nadel) says:Sadly, Emily, I have to agree, because the type of guy you describe is basically me in the 9th grade. "Can I make you a mixtape/carry heavy things for you/give you a friendly back rub? What's that? You just want to be friends, and are in love with the jerk lacrosse player who's into Phish and treats you like garbage? That's understandable. I'll just be over here warming up my shoulder, seeing as how you'll be crying on it shortly."
If I had a time machine, I wouldn't use it to go back in time and assassinate Hitler or hang out with dinosaurs. Instead, I would deliver Emily's letter to myself, circa 1994, thereby preventing a ton of heartache. (Granted, meeting my past self would probably cause the universe to collapse in on itself, but it would all be worth it.)
It took me a long, long, time to realize that I was permanently sending myself to the "friend zone" by being a "boyfriend without benefits." I'm not saying you shouldn't be a nice guy, fellas. Contrary to popular belief, nice guys do finish first, leaving all the losers and scumbags in their awesome wake.
But there's a difference between being nice, and being at your female pal's beck and call 24/7 in the hopes that she'll wake up one day and suddenly not see you as that nice guy whom she has zero interest in sexually. (And, guys, you aren't fooling anyone with the shoulder rub move. She knows you want to hook up with her, and is using that to get free tension relief.)
So, guys, if you want to be her boyfriend, you should be confident, easygoing, funny, and a little mysterious. Don't act like her boyfriend in the hopes that she'll eventually see you as boyfriend material.
The same goes for the ladies out there: showering him with attention, and showing him what a great girlfriend you would make, won't make him go, "Well, I guess she's my girlfriend now." If I go into a bank wearing a top hat and a monocle and announce that I am Prescott J. Bankington III, wealthy financier and raconteur, no one is going to believe that I'm actually a powerful captain of industry. They're just going to think that I'm a crazy person who purchased a cheap monocle at a costume shop. You can act like his boyfriend (or her girlfriend) all you want, but you're still going home alone.
WOW! You just described a really good friend of mine. He does this with ALL OF US! And in retrospect it does make me feel bad, but he is my friend. I wouldn't and couldn't think of him anymore because of the way he is. He shouldn't resort to doucey-ness, but grow a pair and act like a guy for once. He always wonders (out loud non-the-less especially when we're drinking) why we (it's generally me and one other friend) go for all these other guys, but has never once put his name in the mix. He's a great guy, but yeah sorry but: You have offically been friend-zoned!
have a guy friend that's the same way, I've never seen him in any way other than a really good friend. I honestly thought it was the same with him, until the other day he asked me to marry him. I guess I probably always kinda knew that he loved me but not enough to want to marry me..
Wow! That had to be the most intriguing piece I've read on this site! I really like the combination. And I definitely know a lot of guy friends who act this way (not towards me), but who I keep telling should move on, and yet they still hold out hope that these girls will eventually date them =/
I have a BGF like that but he only does it for me (as far as I know) and I like him as more than a friend-so it's like mixed signals when he acts like that and is always around me. Anyone ever encounter this problem and know how to fix it? It's like "If you want to be my boyfriend, then do it but don't take care of me like you already are." It makes me sad sometimes...
I have. My best friend is exactly the same way. For a long time I didn't know what to make of it, because it really feels like mixed signals, but in the end it was just he really, really liked me (platonically). People were always telling us we should go out but we didn't really have that relationship and neither of us were interested in each other that way. You have to tell him how you feel, or nothing is ever going to change.
I'm quite shocked that if you have got to the back rub stage that you would then end up shelved to the BFWOB. I've taken a few emotional kick's to the nuts in my time, but to be giving out back rub's to a girl I want to date and not being able to at least broach the subject of said dating would seem to be new circle of hell.
ya i have a friend like that too,i thought this problem was rare.this guy and i have been really good friends for 8 months now,and he always holds my hand ,and gives me massages and we have sex regularly and he takes me to dinner and movies and other date type things,but when i told him i liked him(non-platonically) he said he liked me too but didnt want to label things yet until he was ready,so what do i do?i really like him,but dont know when or in how long hell be ready..should i wait?
I may have my share of guy problems when it comes to this type of problem, so I fell you girl, BUT I say, *RUN*
Only because it's been 8 months and he doesn't want to accept that you are together; a couple; involved; in a RELATIONSHIP. Do you guys talk about other things besides hooking up? Do you go out in broad day light with people around? Do your friends and/or family know you guys see each other regularly? If so, then you are a couple and he either needs to accept and "label" this or you need to move on to someone who isn't afraid or ashamed or whatever to shout off the top of his lungs that you are his main squeeze. Or at least tell you that "Yes, you are my girlfriend, silly"
I know it is difficult to think this, much less accept it AND act on it because you both like each other, but he needs to get over whatever hang-up is keeping him from acknowledging you as someone of importance in his life. I mean, if I were you I'd feel like his dirty little secret. Hope that helps. Good luck!
Totally sucky.
BTW, Nick, love the Batman shirt.
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Very good article.I once did the BFWOB but got confused as the woman would send really explicit texts and very talk dirty on the phone. We agreed to go on a date and she totally rejected any kind of advance. That was the end of the relationship. In retrospect, I was naive to think that she would reciprocate my interest and paid her too much attention. It is totally obvious that she just liked to toy with me and tease etc. SHE was furious that I cut her off after she made ME look like a fool. I would not talk dirty with a woman and arouse her, agree to go on a date then reject her. Pointleess.....So, people remember, that nice guys do come last. Sad, but true. I think that leading someone on is a bit mean and childish, and it can result in peope becoming bitter and even getting stalkers etc.I have moved on and chalked that up to experience. Keep up the good work :O)
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